"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

Ime it's an important part of a rounded education and I agree with pps that for most children the only way music will be on their radar as a possible activity, rather than a thing that happens all around them done by other people, is if a parent takes an active role in introducing it and carving time out for practice at home.

There's some very interesting research being done now about the multiple effects that playing music, as opposed to just listening to it, has on neural connections. Playing music involves hand and body coordination, spatial awareness, listening skills, emotional expression and often includes learning about structured group dynamics. Children who play music pick up languages more quickly because they listen to sounds in a different way.

And that's all without even starting to think about the joy of playing a lovely melody for oneself or others.

The middle class idea is bollocks, tbh I'm surprised anyone still thinks like that. But music is a rich and rewarding activity and one where you reap dividends by starting young when the brain is still developing and able to store information flexibly (there's a lot of information storing that goes on to be able to memorise even ten simple tunes). So parental initiation, guidance and support is really important.

I'm really glad I was allowed to try different activities and decide for myself what I enjoyed and what I didn't, and my parents accepted this.

I enjoyed music for the years I did it but do not feel that I missed out because I wasn't forced to do it once i got sick of it, until adulthood.

I really don't think playing an instrument is in the same league as cleaning your teeth or eating your greens, in terms of general life importance. If you want to give it that significance that's your prerogative but its certainly not a universal viewpoint, and some people will judge you as being a pushy parent.

Its a bit patronising to suggest that learning an instrument is the only way to learn perseverance and skill development. This is the kind of mindset I was mocking in my post really, not the playing of an instrument per se, that playing an instrument is somehow just better than other activities. You say 'it's a question of priorities' but you sound like you think that, of course, your priorities are the correct ones!

I also think its sad and setting children up for anxiety to only encourage them in achievement-based activities. Becoming accomplished in a skill is not the only reason to do an activity- what happened to enjoyment? Im certainly not going to lie on my death bed and think 'oh I wish I'd spent more hours of my childhood practising that sodding violin'.

And the reason people think its 'middle class' is that playing an instrument, unlike playing football or doing street dance, is a 'class selector'. You are more likely to meet other middle class people doing a music activity than learning some other skills and I would have more respect for parents that just admit that that's partly why they encourage it so vehemently-they want little Timmy to make nice 'friends like us'.

I don’t know about middle class but I think that if you are fortunate enough to have enough disposable funds for extra-curricula's then the best thing to do is introduce your child(ren) to a range of things and then fully support the ones that end up being a good fit.

Both my kids have done pretty much everything over the years. A range of instruments, gymnastics, various dance forms, acting, art, every sport under the sun and probably more I’ve forgotten about.

DS did guitar for a few years but stopped enjoying it so we knocked it on the head. DD, it turns out, doesn’t have a musical bone in her body. They have continued with other things into teenage years that they love.

OK I know I will be going against the grain here but this is the MN hill I will die on. My DCs have played the piano for four years. At my instigation. I treat it like swimming, they have to go. They moaned a bit at first and still moan a bit now about practising. But I haven't let them give up.I have told them they can do any sports or club they want to but they must keep playing.

They are both now beautiful players and my eldest (who was less keen) actively wants to get better. I can see his self-esteem and joy when he plays because he can do it. My youngest played at school recently.

It's not easy learning and many kids want to give up with music. In my humble view though, most kids won't bother if you leave it to them. But I have met SO many adults who say they wished their parents had made them continue playing when they were young. I am of the view that you have to use the art of persuasion and help them get there.

Re what music brings - there is loads of research online about the neurocognitive benefits of learning an instrument.

Neither of mine play an instrument but they do a lot of extra curricular activities and are both academic. I was forced to play various instruments, eventually settled on one and had to carry on until grade 8. I never played it again once after I left school. For me it was a complete and utter waste of time and not something I would push my children to do.

I was a WC DC, made by my musically talented mother to take piano lessons.
I can say with certainty, that discounting the fleeting admiration of strangers for my tipsy rendition of The Entertainer on a pub piano (swiftly followed by disappointment that I couldn't give them some Oasis) the social benefits to me have been zero.
And if that was my mother's aim, she'd have been better spending her money on a ra ra skirt, shoes with bows on and highlights, so I could have been cool enough to get invited to Lisa Jenkins party. I did tell her. She wouldn't have it.

I'm surprised by the inverted snobbery shown in this thread. I forced mine to play an instrument. They got to pick the instrument but they did have to. One got to grade 5 and stopped and the other grade 8+. It has undoubtedly had a major positive social impact to both. I am working class and we live in a deeply deprived area - yes getting to go to orchestra with the “nobs” (another posters term!) means they have friends who are middle class and aspirational. They literally don’t get to see that here- their school is full of kids who don’t value education, who scoff at learning and smoke drink and deal their way through life. (Not a reflection of all deprived areas or working class kids but it is a true reflection of the comprehensive schools here) so orchestra has given them access to middle class friends. There they learned how to code switch (switching between language patterns etc that lower classes have to do in many environment's) which they will need to in university. It has also given them something to do - rather than go to the park and vape with the other teens. It helped teach them resilience and the value of hard work. The eldest is going to uni this year and already knows two girls in the year above as they have been on the same orchestra circuit over the past few years. I’m not saying it alone did all this but it certainly helped.

I am only now starting to earn more and claw my way out of poverty at 40. I want better for my kids and have gone out of my way to encourage them to get out of this shit hole- learn enough to earn enough to not be stuck like me, my parents before and their parents before them. I’m not saying playing an instrument alone is enough to do that- but it is a very effective way for them to gain a social advantage they otherwise would have no way of accessing imo.

If you look at your very own example, you did it as a child and later on in your life you found the purpose for it- then you have gained something. Why wouldn’t you do the same for your child?
my kids play an instrument, they’re not particularly good at it BUT it’s really important for them to be exposed to a variety of things. Music, sports, hobbies, academics. A little bit of each.

Wehad speech and drama lessons at school from age 7-11. Also my grandmother used to make us walk around with book on head to practise good posture

I wouldn;t force them, but I would strongly encourage them. Both my DC play instruments and music is absolutely central in their social lives. One is in a semi-pro band, the other runs an amateur choir and composes for fun.

It's such a gorgeous life-long skill and pleasure - socialable and solo. I wish my parents had encouraged me.

You don't have to make your child learn an instrument, a sport, a scouting type activity but having a mixture of opportunities and experiences can help to open doors and lead to other interests. My siblings and I all learnt an instrument and while I rubbish at the one I did, I'm grateful that I did that because being able to read music really helped with my singing and choir which I've continued in various different ways through all 4 decades of my life. Doing a brass instrument meant making friends in bands and orchestra. Some siblings taught themselves guitar after doing a different instrument and then enjoyed playing in bands as a social thing as teens and young adults.

I don't live in a middle class area and we don't have a middle class income and our children's schools haven't had a majority of middle class children so mine were one of maybe 3-10 children in the whole school at any given time who were learning an instrument. Partly due to the cost (even though it's subsidised by school, at their high school it's free when you do GCSE music or you're on FSM, we've had instruments donated on loan from a local charity or second hand) but I think mainly because it wasn't the norm for the parent so it's not something they particularly see any value in.

There are loads of good reasons for learning an instrument. But there are also loads of good reasons for doing a team sport and that's not for everyone and some children hate it. Hobbies and interests should be things your child enjoys in their spare time. If you don't want them to learn music and if they don't want to learn music, don't worry about it. It's not time limited - they can learn as an adult if they change their mind.

Re "Forcing"

DS ASKED to get lessons for two different instruments age 8 and then 9.

We absolutely wouldn't have pushed it if he hadn't have requested it. He absolutely loves both though I do wish he'd practice more.

Neither of my children have shown any interest in learning an instrument, and I won't be encouraging them to choose something they have zero interest in doing.
I was forced to start learning to play the piano when I was 8, because it was something my mum wished she'd had the opportunity to do. My parents must have spent thousands of pounds over the years on lessons. I have no natural aptitude towards music, I hated being forced to practice everyday and I haven't played a note since I was finally allowed to quit when I was 17! I honestly don't think my life would have been any different if I'd not learnt (apart from my parents would have saved money and I would have been happier!).
What used to really piss me off was my mum would shout at me if she felt I'd played the wrong note (despite having no musical experience at all, & it being the correct note), just because she didn't like how the piece of music sounded. FFS!

It’s being framed as “forcing” but most children need to have the chance to experience something before knowing whether they are interested in it. If you personally don’t like or value music and never have it on in the house, why and how would you expect your kids to develop an interest in it?

Most parents do not wait or expect their children to show an interest in maths or brushing their teeth or learning to swim but they encourage them to do those things. If the child then wants to enter maths competitions or swimming galas then great - you can support them in that - but most people agree that a basic level of competence is important for everyone.

Music - as with swimming - is on the National curriculum but has been devalued and defunded to such an extent that you really can’t achieve any kind of competence these days without parental involvement outside school. And that is a big shame.

That was part of my point. I didn’t have a piano growing up because we didn’t have an available wall for one to go against.

My son is only two, but swimming is mandatory for me, I'll be doing a language too (Spanish) informally.

Music and sport will be interest-driven, but my parents are interested in taking him to their choir practice once he reaches admission age of four.

I think there's a real benefit in communal singing, so I think this is a good middle ground.

He’ll what note the patient is squealing.

Not sure why class is relevant - working class people play instruments too you know!

My (working class) parents forced me to learn the piano. I largely hated it.

So we gave DD a choice. She has piano lessons for a while but hated it, so dropped it.

She has singing lessons because she loves singing (and is very talented in my opinion).

I think it should be led by your kids' preferences to be honest. As should any hobby.

If he's not interested it's pointless to try to force it!

I would hope that DD wants to play an instrument at some point but if she doesn't want to I won't try to make her. She currently does singing lessons.

My brother is a dentist and they were very interested in his Grade 8 violin as it showed he had excellent manual dexterity. He also ran his own Youth Orchestra for a while which was certainly considered an impressive demonstration of leadership skills, so it certainly isn't irrelevant.

Do you only learn these qualities from playing a musical instrument then?
Very bizarre statement.

OP my 20 year old ds was never interested (ALL his friends in our MC group did at least one type of instrument). Looking at that group now, not a single one of them took it any further after primary school.
I think of all the money wasted tbh

A piano is also impractical in many homes. My front room is 12ft by 13. Where on earth would a piano go?

I am a bit taken aback at how often the OP uses the words “force” or “forcing”. Even when my children were 5 and 6, I could not have forced them to practise if they really didn’t want to.

Realistically, pretty much everyone is going to get judged for some choice they make. I got judged for not doing many out of school activities with my children. If your child doesn’t want to learn to play an instrument that is fine. But I must admit that so am sometimes a bit surprised when I meet someone who has no one in the family learning to play.

Someone upthread said that sport is the equal of music in terms of accomplishment. I’m sure it is but I am sometimes taken aback at how much sport dominates the lives of those who do it. A friend’s son plays football (not at a particularly high level) and the coach is clear that football comes before everything else. I also know too many children who have done a sport at a competitive level and then got cut from the squad - one gymnast was training four evenings a week and a whole weekend and then was devastated when she was cut. Although you are expected to practise, music doesn’t seem to eat the lives of those who participate in the way that sport does.

I can see why piano is often the first instrument but in a way it is a pity. If you don’t have a piano at home (I didn’t, growing up) then it isn’t going to work. Plus a pianist won’t be in an orchestra unless they are fantastic. In many ways, a smaller melodic instrument that can be carried to and from school (like a flute) is a bit more accessible.

Didn't force music like I didn't force football! A hobby is a hobby and should be enjoyed!