"I'm failing in my duty as a middle class parent by not making DC play an instrument"

Learning to swim and learning the piano were the two things I wanted DS to do as I felt they were the two most useful things I did outside school as a child.

I didn't know when he started them that he was dyspraxic, but both of them helped him so much with coordination particularly, but also with concentration, memory, core strength, flexibility and endurance.

They're certainly the two extra curriculars I'd recommend for any child even though he stopped both of them long before he was applying for uni's.

Unfortunately in this country, learning an instrument is very expensive and it’s hard to access good quality tuition. Sport and music should be taught to a high standard at school but they are not and that’s why many middle class’ parents encourage them as extracurriculars. Music is just an intrinsic part of a good education. It’s also one of those things that isn’t necessarily immediately fun. You have to get to a certain level before you can enjoy making music. IMO one of the problems is that people don’t take it seriously enough. You need take time to choose the instrument that speaks to the child, find a really good teacher and help with daily practice. I learned the hard way that if you just send your kid to any old teacher on any old instrument and don’t support practice, they will get little out of it unless they are naturally extremely talented or motivated. So it will appear to have been a waste of time or not something they enjoyed or you will conclude that your kid isn’t musical.

Obviously though properly supporting musical education at home requires time, money, commitment, patience and sadly isn’t doable for many.

My mum always wanted to learn to play the piano. My grandparents simply couldn´t afford it. So she went without. When I was about 6 or 7 she asked me if I wanted piano classes. If I had had the vocab back then I would´ve answered Hell No! Can´t think of anything worse. I don´t have musical talent, no vocation, was never even interested in playing a tune on my brother´s recorder. Boring.
My brother´s best friend was forced to go to conservatory and play the violin, when he was about 15 he would detour to our house and play video games with my brother. He was sick to the back teeth of the damned violin. Parents, please don´t project your frustrations on your kids. You go and play the violin if you are so obsessed by it!

We’ve already had the “does it matter for university” debate on the thread. It can do. I’ve already posted (several times) about someone I know where it made the difference between missing their first choice uni place and not.

More generally, some unis (I can confirm Cambridge, but I expect others too) are interested because performing at a very high level in something (anything) extracurricular while also getting the top grades that are required is a good indication that the student will be able to cope with the intense workload when they get there.

Maybe that's because you're not very good at it though, rather than the act of playing music being inherently unimpressive? 🤪

I mean, I've lost count of the times a blast of 3 blind mice on the recorder has got me places in life!

Your personal statement is to show your passion for the subject you have chosen to study - the supra-curricular stuff, bit extra-curricular.
So the books/articles you've read, lectures you've attended, work experience, MOOCS completed, competitions entered, clubs/societies etc not grade 6 recorder.

Totally disagree on this. I went on youth orchestra tours all over Europe as a teen. Best days of my life!

Yes I think for ucas it helps to show interest in some extracurricular, I don’t think it necessarily matters what though

Oh Gosh, that's the kind of thing you say in jest about yourself not to your friends!

DS1 did a year or two of keyboard but wasn't that interested so I let him quit (my grandad played piano beautifully and composed so I thought he should at least try), he enjoyed choir for a few years though.
Now 99% of his energy goes on football instead.

DS2 (6) loves the piano in our church hall so I might see if he wants to do keyboard next year (school offers instruments from year 2).

I did choir and flute all the way through secondary school but I enjoyed it and my parents didn't need to nag me to practise.

Instead of musical instruments what about singing lessons or choir? Being able to sing well is a skill i do not have and i wish i did.

The "top tier" universities that most aspirational middle class parents are likely to be interested in are unlikely to make offers which rely on ucas points from hobbies etc.

My dd had ucas points from multiple activities including dance, drama and singing exams, but these were completely irrelevant to her university offer, and didn't feature at all - it was her academic grades that were important.

The extracurricular stuff undoubtedly helped to build her confidence and gave her stuff to talk about at interview etc, but equally, so did her part time job, work experience, volunteering etc.

And playing in front of others after practicing for so long is a special thrill too.

Honestly though it depends on the type of child you have. Some will moan but they also enjoy it and will benefit a lot from practicing and playing. For others then pushing it is a waste of time that they could be spending on other activities and it’s ultimately damaging.

Me too.

I went to a school where it was the done thing to play an instrument and we all did. I'm in touch with many of my school friends - a couple were very musical and they have careers linked to music, but the rest of us all gave up and didn't feel much benefit.

With my kids - I am led by them. One is doing a musical activity (not a classical instrument though) and one isn't. I am not going to pressure them into it, I really don't see the point

But would they be interested if you played in the school orchestra or band throughout secondary? I think being able to play with others is a terrific experience.

It may be more of a US thing to have a huge array of extra curricular activities to impress colleges.

Well they do a bit, they give you UCAS points for it.

That aside, your DC do sport, right? That ticks the same extracurricular box in my view.

Part of this is because I was forced to play the piano as a child, only doing grades - and hated having to play the same classical pieces for months at a time. I gave up as a teen, but ironically I have rediscovered the joy of the piano in middle age and now love trying to play music that I l actually like! I can only do this because I learnt the basics as a child.

I could have written this. I don’t think it did me any harm but it was dreadfully boring to play scales every day and for exams. I suppose there may be some value in persisting with things that are dull to get grades/jump through hoops. My parents knew nothing about music so I probably could have skipped scales and exercises at home and they wouldn’t have been wiser, but practicing them was something that I decided to do on my own. (Thinking about it now I’m anmazed I possessed the maturity.) And I did learn to play less robotically and with more feeling when I got older. I also appreciate classical music more than I probably would have without that foundation. I do think there’s value to being able to read music, which you really only understand after a few years of playing. It’s allowed me to experiment with other instruments and I’ve picked up the guitar as an adult.

I would gently push it if there is time in the week. Can you find a teacher who will intersperse classical music with popular music? If not piano/keyboard which I think is a great foundation for other instruments, the guitar which I think is more sociable.

I complained about my piano lessons all the time as a child. I didn’t want to practise, wanted to give up. Am I glad my parents wouldn’t let me give up? Every day. I didn’t have the maturity then to know how much pleasure playing the piano could bring as an adult. I didn’t know that my career would actually include teaching music and that reading it would be an advantage. I know that instruments can be learnt at a later age. But it’s harder! And lots of research shows that learning an instrument develops the brain in a way other activities cannot. It works all your senses at once.

Agreed! My eldest played the flute for five years, passed grade 3 and lost interest. DS2 inherited it, passed grade 2 and asked to try the sax instead, but not to do grades. Same teacher. He is in the last stage of having lessons now in Y13. He enjoys it. But I cannot see how it has given either of them any social advantages!

A friend said this to you? I fear she doesn't know what she's on about. I am a music teacher and yes it has wide reaching benefits, but as a parent I too am child led and see no point in forcing anything. The fundamental point of music is to enjoy it so if it's a battle, stop. A capable teacher will be able to make lessons fun but if DC doesn't want to get through the door anyway then, cool. I have 3 kids, one is too little but out of the other 2 one tried piano and stopped, the other does piano, guitar and drums.

I'm the opposite. As an adult, I really wish that my parents hadn't pushed me to spend so much time learning musical instruments that I didn't enjoy.

I think US universities like this kind of thing, but UK universities don't really care.

Yanbu. Hobbies should be child-led imo.

I do think it's important for the child to have things that they do outside school which require practice and commitment, and which enable them to meet other people, but I don't think music lessons are inherently any better than other options.

My dd is actually very musical but showed zero interest whenever I asked if she wanted to learn an instrument. I didn't push it as I got very little out of my own music lessons as a child. DD's passion was for dance and drama instead. She did end up having singing lessons as teenager off the back of this, and she did some singing exams, but I don't think she missed out at all as a result of not learning an instrument. She is perfectly "well rounded" as an adult without having done so!

I think music lessons can offer many benefits to children who are interested. But those benefits aren't unique to musical instruments, and if the child wants to do something else instead, I see no point in forcing the issue.

Is that the case though? I had always thought that they were looking at the range of things you did showing that you were an interesting and well rounded individual etc blah blah, i.e. all the things you include in your personal statement bit as otherwise what else are they looking at other than your predicted grades. Obviously playing an instrument doesn’t have to be on there if there are plenty of other things, but I thought they were interested in this stuff.

@AstonScrapingsNameChange Please read my other posts - I didn’t say music was the only way to learn certain skills, but it requires and involves so many different ones that it is a very efficient way of doing it.

You can achieve the same thing if your kid did chess (mental/academic) + foreign language (language/communication) + dance (rhythm/motor) + team sport (team/social/physical) + drama (performance/communication) and from a lot of those you also get discipline, stamina, resilience. But learning an instrument and playing it with other children ticks all of those in one.

Music is not an achievement-based activity either (unless you’re thinking of exams, which no one has to do) - it’s about the pleasure and joy of making music for and with others.

The middle class thing is absolute rubbish - reverse snobbery. I grew up on benefits with a single mum, had free lessons through school, music opened doors to me as a child and provided me with the most fulfilling and joyous times in my life and friends from all backgrounds. The reason it might be seen as middle class in England (I’m not from here) is because all the funding has been cut so that now it’s really only available to those who can afford to pay. And that is a disgrace!