GCSE reduced subjects advice needed

I would definitely book to see head teacher and ask why this was never communicated when there was a time for intervention rather than writing him off as the school apparently has done.
If you can afford it I would find outside independent help. Maybe look into a tutor for maths and English assessing your son's level? Have a SEND or dyslexia assessment done, we discovered our son was dyslexic very late on, age 14 as he was struggling to copy down things and keep up. It was only as the work got harder that it showed in class. We had questioned it several times in primary school but been told no he was fine. My son did 4 A levels and is doing a degree, he's on track for a 1st, so you're right to fight it. He had a French and English tutor to get him through the subjects so that he didn't spend ages trying to revise them. It allowed him to spend the time on the subjects he enjoyed and did well in, and got him a pass in subjects he might have failed.

If he isn incredibly bright and intelligent, then the problem must lie elsewhere. Is he unmotivated? You don't make it sound as if he is. Low effort? Doesn't sound like that either. You make it sound as if the school has done this for no reason at all. Is that possible? I suppose it's not impossible.

My DDs in year 9 and we went to the options presentation at school this week, where they explained the pathways.

at DDs school paths 3 is the same as you have described where they explained that children on this pathway have been flagged as needing extra English or maths support or both. And also have more options for non exam based courses (NVQ type courses).

i feel like this is a good thing for those that may be struggling.

what I don’t think is right is that you aren’t getting the answers.

It’s likely your child will be struggling in maths or English.

this should have been flagged to you/your DS especially if you have just had parents evening.

try and get a meeting with the head of year and cc the head teacher in. Make sure you express disappointment that you havnt had questions answered.

i wouldn’t worry about the EBAC that has been abolished (what we were told this week). He will need a 4 or above in English/Maths/Science (main focus on English and maths), for A Levels. He will then need a least a 4 or above in another subject too (so 5 GCSEs at 4 or above for most sixth forms to include maths/english and Science (which is two)).

if he wanted to study geography at A level for example our sixth forms says he would need a 6 or above in geography at GCSE level. Have a look on the sixth form website as they will give exact details of their requirements.

hoping you can get some answers.

But remember if your child is struggling this will be positive for him as he will get more help to achieve a grade 4 at least in English and Maths.

Good post

Just to mention that F tier is only offered in maths and science (and MFL) not English or other subjects. Yes I imagine maths bottom set dc will sit F tier but they are unlikely to want to take science A level anyway. But you to science Btec post 16, it can be excellent

Btecs post-16 are a perfectly valid route to many universities and may suit your DS better).

I know a few teens who enjoyed the BTEC level 3 Applied Science course. Level 3 means it’s treated like A-levels for uni entry purposes so if you’re unfamiliar with BTECs like I was before my kids did some, it’s worth learning how great they are for students who are more likely to get 4/5 rather than 6+ at GCSE.

BTE GCSE English is 2 GCSEs (Literature and Language) and Combined Science is 2 GCSEs (you learn all 3 sciences)

Also are you assuming that Ebacc is a university entrance requirement? It’s a theoretical spread of what kids should study for a rounded education - there’s no certificate or difference whether or not you achieve it. My kids picked their subjects based on their interests and strengths. One dropped MFL for example as he’s dyslexic and the MFL teaching is very patchy (hard to recruit MFL teachers these days) One of my kids did Geography and History and wishes they’d stuck to one of them and did a more practical GCSE for a change in rhythm.

I do agree that it sounds like poor communication from the school. My sons are out of school now but when they went, from Years 7-9 their school had a scoring system on the termly reports that really meant very little to parents. In reality it meant ‘below where they should be,’ ‘working at the expected level,’ and ‘working above the expected level.’ But they had three words that were meant to show this and they didn’t. The ‘below’ word was quite ambiguous and a lot of parents thought it meant they were on target. I always knew with my two that it meant below as they, especially the eldest, had struggled all through primary. But I went to a virtual meeting about how to read the reports when my youngest was in Year 9 and it was clear most parents did not know if their kids were behind. Plus, it didn’t give any info about how behind a child was. Were they in Year 9 and working at Year 8 level, so still might catch up? Or were they Year 9 but working at a Year 2 level so were likely to fail everything in Year 11? You didn’t know from the reports and parents evenings were usually full of vague ‘well if he works hard he might get there.’ Then in Year 10 the report style changed and suddenly you were getting predicted grades. Which might come as a hell of a shock to some parents if their children are predicted grade 3s in most subjects after years of assuming they were doing well.

The next issue you might find is that if your son is placed on this pathway this might mean that he takes foundation papers in all subjects - apart from English which is all levels. That would mean that the highest he could achieve would be grade 5 and this might then prevent him from doing A Levels.

Though, there is no shame in taking a different path from A Levels. My two are both doing vocational subjects and absolutely thriving. And they both suit the assessments being less reliant on a big exam. Plus, a Level 3 vocational course can be used as a pathway to university if that was still a strong desire.

I don’t think people are getting hung up on A-Levels.

OP is concerned that reducing the number of GCSE’s to 8 will curtail his post-16 education options and preclude him from doing A-Levels or a degree.

Everyone is just reassuring her that that is not the case and if anything, this pathway is likely to broaden his options if it results in higher grades in English and maths.

Yes sixth form requirements will vary for sure, my DCs’ for example did not ask for 6 at GCSE in maths and English, 4 was fine (unless taking those subjects obvs). So the OP needs maybe to look at what is on offer locally once she has a bead on what grades her DS is likely to get at GCSE.

None of us can know so I guess there’s not much point speculating – it can vary so much.

I have seen a couple of refs to single science which I am pretty sure does not exist or at any rate I have not heard of it for years. Similarly with the doubt over taking Eng lit – unless a student has a very high level of SEN and LD (seems unlikely in this case) a school will for sure enter them into Eng lit (even when it is most unsuitable IME – not saying this is the case here).

I agree with the poster cautioning about science A levels if in bottom set for maths btw. @Arizona29 has not said what her son’s long term plan is but I am hoping not medicine or vet sci tbh. If you do come back @Arizona29 then let us know what it is as there are many knowledgeable posters who may be able to give you helpful advice (for example Btecs post-16 are a perfectly valid route to many universities and may suit your DS better).

This is daft advice. OP needs to go to the head of year in the first instance; if there is another SLT member directly involved in the GCSE pathways process, then to that person. If she still isn't satisfied, she goes up the food chain, via the complaints procedure (which will be on the school website). Going straight to the HT will result in the HT passing it back down to anyone who hasn't already been contacted.

Contacting the Chair of Governors is pointless at this stage, because they come at the end of the complaints procedure.

Have you looked at what the requirements are for the further A-Levels he wants to do? Different sixth forms and colleges have slightly different requirements or options too.

That's a good idea - it's early to look and what they offer can change due to demands - but would give you an idea of what he'd need grade wise.

Yes I agree , I mentioned that my son did music, and no languages or humanities, but never meant it to come across as an easy option, even for him it was hard (and he plays 3 instruments and did grades in them etc outside school)

it was a good subject for him to choose as he genuinely loves music

but def not an easy option at all

it was just to show that there is not really one-size-fits-all and the Ebac isn’t the best choice for everyone

Is he struggling or coasting? Unfortunately there is only so long that being “bright” can carry them through if there are other barriers to learning. Being in the lowest Maths set suggests he is struggling to manage and process the curriculum content. If he is quiet in class he may already be aware of his difficulties compared to peers and is trying not to be noticed. You need to tackle this from different directions. If this is really the first indication , the school has let you and your ds down by not being clearer and suggesting interventions. Year 9 is not too late too address this but you will need to be proactive in asking for advice on what he needs to do to “catchup”, assessments, exam access arrangements such as extra time or laptop use, opportunities for learning support and so on. Could you get him a tutor to consolidate his learning and if so , what would be the possibility of him moving pathway if he improved academically?

If he wants to do a different set of subjects he can request them but realistically he needs as many level 2/gcse at the best grades he can achieve. That tends to be when they follow subjects they enjoy and engage with most. Minimum would be 5 passes including English and Maths but individual schools/colleges will set their own entry grades for A levels, usually grade 6 or above. Help him put together the case for what he wants, speak to those subject teachers and get them on board but if he is on this pathway the timetable may limit choices so be prepared. If he has strong ideas beyond gcse work back from there. Do students on this pathway take Foundation rather than Higher papers as this will limit his potential attainment to grade 5 in some subjects. The school’s deadline is internal and arbitrary, plenty of others would not make such a definitive decision this early. If he were to prove himself when do they actually finalise the timetable and teaching groups?

Just to reiterate, OP: you don't need 8 GCSEs to do A Levels, and you don't need a MFL (unless you want to study a MFL at A Level).

It does depend on the college, but around here you need 6 GCSEs, 2 need to be at grade 6 or above, and 2 of those GCSEs need to be Maths and English. Individual A levels may have different requirements - eg you need a Grade 7 in Maths to do it at A level.

You can check this yourself by googling 'entry requirements" with the name of any college local to you.

You can also drop subjects at any time. Eg. my son dropped Spanish GCSE (as he was going to fail it anyway) in year 11. We were told by school it was 'impossible', so I spoke to the exam boards who said 'that's fine' - and school then had to admit that it was possible (they just didn't like it).

In our experience:

• high schools go completely overboard about the number of GCSEs a child needs and how important they are
• they only need 6
• you can reduce the number of GCSEs if you want to give your child less stress and more time to focus on the things they're good at or want to study at A Level
• colleges are more relaxed, and you can speak to them now to find out what your son's options are - to put your mind at rest
• you can change your mind quite late in the day.

I know this has come out of the blue, but you need to do some research and then advocate for him - about what HE wants, and also what's best for / most realistic for him.

Schools pretend they can dictate but in our experience they will back down when presented with a calm, factual and considered alternative. They will start with 'no' but they won't sit with it.

And forget the 27th: it is not a real deadline. This is a fault of the school's making and so they now need to give all parties the time to adequately plan what happens next.

Calm, factual, informed is the way through. You can do this - and your son will be fine x

Your already aware you need to get in front of someone senior OP, I wouldn't usually advise this but I would in this case turn up at school and ask to speak to his Head of Year. I wouldn't be leaving til they made a slot and explained this properly(and I do work in education so I know they are snowed under).

I will advise you from the other side though, I was a child who ultimately decided to put myself on a reduced pathway at school, the school didn't want to because I was capable but didn't have much choice but to go with it in the end.
I wasn't struggling academically, in fact I was more than capable of achieving a lot more but it was too much, for reasons totally different to your DS but still.
It's quality not quantity that matters here, and if your DS is struggling with the time limits on assessments A-Levels are going to be really hard for him.

Have you looked at what the requirements are for the further A-Levels he wants to do? Different sixth forms and colleges have slightly different requirements or options too.

Of course this may be a big mix up, and you do need to get to the bottom of it today/tomorrow before half term, but if it is not a mix up please try to see the positive in this, it could be the difference between 4s in a lot or 6/7s in a few.

NRTFT but surely they're doing him a favour. At A level it's the grade they're looking at as long as you have 5/6 GCSEs at the equivalent of an old C. Even most college courses are looking for 5 GCSEs at grade C (4/5). By cutting his subjects down he'll have a better chance at this. No college will care if he has 20 GCSES at grade 3.
Did you really not have any clue? Even SATs project GCSE grades. You must have had grades for years, that even without streaming of sets can't have been high. If they were high then it must be a mistake.
He may not be putting the work in or not be as bright as you believe. You keep saying about SEN. My SEN DN aced his GCSES at grade 9. SEN isn't a marker of intelligence. If you or school haven't asked for any referrals by now or haven't noticed, it's probably not the case.
Both you and your DS seem quite concerned about what others think, I would have been pleased if this had been offered to my 2DS who were projected average grades.
There are plenty of pupils with high aspirations that will never get 10 grade 8/9s. I was realistic with DSs. They studied vocational courses in college, were accepted on great apprenticeships and now have careers they love, with the bonus of no student loans. DD was academic, GCSES all 8/9s, grade A, A levels in physics, maths and chemistry (she won the academic chemistry prize), and is now studying for a Masters in mathematical physics. What's right for one is not always right for another. I don't think this is the kick in the teeth you both think this is.

In this country, passing Maths and English GCSEs is generally seen as the most important thing. Sounds to me like the school has decided some kids may not pass and have put them in this select intervention group for that reason. They then decided those kids would as a group prefer creative subjects around that. Which does not apply to the OPs DS who would prefer a 2nd humanity and a language. They probably feel they can’t timetable that just for the OPs DS.

I can completely understand the OPs frustration. Sadly in the hierarchy of state education it’s maths English and science all the way now with humanities/languages as an after thought. Which is both dangerous to society as according to all the great writers you need critical thought. It’s also unfair on the OPs DS as he appears stronger in those than the subjects the current system uses to define intelligence.

You've had some good advice in the thread so hopefully you're feeling a bit less 'deer in headlights'.
Make a plan - what does DS want to do? What A levels is he after? Not doing a language doesn't matter at all despite what schools say. Look at the next stage and make sure his GCSE's get him there.

Look carefully at the practical options being suggested - they can be a huge amount of work/time...Art is a killer for taking a huge amount of time. Then you need to sit down with the school and tell them what you want, including dyslexia screening as an urgent actions with the head of SEN. They can do a screening that will highlight issues. Not finishing exams is classic processing issue, if he was given 25% extra time it might well make the world of difference. Ask the SEN to calculate his grades based on the amount finished - that will give you an idea of his understanding of the subject without the speed issue.

If you can afford it get him a full assessment at somewhere recommended by British Dyslexia Association or similar charity. https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/services/assessments

When he did his assessments how did he say they went at the time? Did he just say Ok or did he say he didn't finish? Teens often don't say much.

I would be going in to school and not moving until I got answers. I would be emailing every one of his teachers and copying in the head of year head of key stage and the head of school and the chair of governors if need be.

When you have a school this bad at communictaion don't assume anything - get it in writing if it would be two English GCSE or just English Language.

Be very clear what you are signing up for.

Keep what they say - and try and get it in wirting in case thing change again with no notice or information - so you can refer back and ask more questions.

Bright kids don't end up in the bottom sets. Perhaps the middle sets if they have undiagnosed SEN, but the bottom set kids are usually the lowest ability/achievers or those who refuse to do the work.

My Necie was in bottom set for maths - she got 4 in end but got 6 for English and 9 in art and 9 in photography - she went on to Btec route but is now applying to uni courses. Sometimes you get spiky profiles and talents.

Also depends on school selective school bottom sets are likely higher standard than bottom sets at school in speacial measures.

As a point of information, no-one has to do both English language and literature. Only English language is the golden key for getting in to colleges and universities. My two dyslexic sons only did English language and one has now graduated and the other has uni offers. They also didn’t do languages and they only did one humanity.

Lots of A level humanities subjects don’t need a GCSE (eg media studies, psychology, sociology). My DD did A level history having not done the GCSE.

OP I can understand your anxiety but (apart from the compulsory creative subjects) the school’s proposal might not be so bad. But you do need to get to the bottom of the time issues. I’m not a professional but I do have dyslexic children and it sounds like dyslexia to me.

Science and English will be x 2 so it is 8.

8 is fine.

This year our school implemented a new system, parents and students received a letter with a pathway written on the top.

Your child then chose the subjects based on the pathway that had been chosen for them.

The pathway was based on several factors.

My child was pathway X some of her friends were pathway Y.

The difference in the pathways were the number of subjects they could take at GCSE.

I don’t see a problem with this?

It is not indicative of SEN, it’s putting each student on a pathway that will help them excel.

He's doing 7 or 8:
Science will be 2, English 1 or 2.

OP please don't panic. Even if A levels end up not suiting him, there's more than one way to 'skin a cat'. Friend of mine was crap at exams, did BTecs at 6th form college then kept going back for more and more higher level ones. He ended up with degree equivalent and is a bigwig in aerospace engineering now.

Or if your son doesn't get the GCSEs for the A levels he wants, he could take more at 6th form college, or do diplomas/ access courses. People often do different things before 6th form college so it's not weird to be a year or 2 older starting A levels there.

Focus on what will get him the best grades for now, one step at a time.

What did he get in his KS2 SATS?
Did he do Cat4 in year 7/8?

Just to see the other data points they are using and get to the bottom of this.

It’s not 2 less science is classed as 2 or 3 GCSEs (depending on dual award or separate sciences) and English is usually 2 (English language and English literature)

My children are in an academically selective school and they are allowed complete freedom of choices and the Ebacc route is not pushed, it’s not longer looked on in the same way as it was and is often used as a way to measure school performance but has no real impact on A levels/university

i have one daughter now doing a levels and receiving university place offers who did 2 languages and 2 creative subjects as well as the core subjects and no humanity

my next daughter is GCSE year she has not chosen any languages but has chosen 1 humanity and 2 creative subjects and the school have decided to drop the choices to 9 total rather than 10 for the whole school and to teach content in greater depth as universities often only require 6-8 depending on course but there must be a pass in maths and English so the fact they are offering more support for those to your son is important.

if he is underperforming in assessments the practical subjects offer a big chunk of overall grade as coursework so there is less pressure come exam time. the allows exam focus on core subjects

it’s important he is allowed to take anything he wants to take for A level at GCSE but other than that it doesn’t matter too much, it’s much more important to choose subjects that give him the best chance to do well, have a look at some of the entrance requirements for the degree course he may be interested in to reassure yourself