Trans- gender dysphoria- mental illness?

Also, affirming trans identies does not exist in a vacuum. It has consequences for other people as well.

If society agrees something in a man's mind means he's really a woman, it is unavoidably also agreeing that it is something in a woman's mind rather than the reality of her body that makes her a woman. And that unavoidably reduces the scope of womanhood to just a subset of our actual mental cabilities and possibilities. Many women do not see ourselves as simply a mental subset of humanity and it is not at all fair to force this identity on to us.

When society agrees that such men should, for their own comfort or mental health, be accomodated with women rather than men in single sex spaces, opportunities and language, it is unavoidably also agreeing that the women in those spaces must accept sharing them with men regardless of their own comfort or mental health, regardless of whether those women do in fact have the same belief that womanhood is a mixed sex mental attribute which they also see in themselves or not.

Many women do not consider a male bodied person to have a body that is somehow metaphysically like ours and therefore actually a female body because of how he feels inside, and it not at all fair to force his touch onto us when we ask for female care.

Distress and mental health issues are so often caused or aggravated by circumstances. There are many things society could do to alleviate this for individuals that we do not do because of the unfair demands or consequences for others.

The incels would be happier if women were forced to date/fuck them. The homeless would be happier if homeowners were forced to give up their spare room to house a stranger. The alcoholic would be happier if someone else fed and housed them then left alone to drink. Millions of abusive men would be happier if their wives just smiled and obeyed them in all things like a Stepford robot.

We don't sacrifice one group to the unreasonable beliefs of another in thise cases and we should not be allowing sexist or disordered ideas about what type of mind is "right" for men and men to sacrifice female identity, autonomy and rights.

Once you look at the whole picture rather than just considering the male half of the picture, you realise it isn't a cost free accommodation at all, but a huge and unreasonable demand on women to accomodate the needs of some men.

ChatGPT is transactivist, isn't it? When I asked it about any serious crimes by transmen in the UK, it explained to me that trans people are discriminated against and unfairly accused of crimes. It claimed not to know of any crimes by transmen. When I told it about the conviction for a planned mass school shooting by a transboy in Edinburgh in 2025 (Felix Winter), ChatGPT said that Felix Winter was only stated to be transgender by some of the media, not all of it, so shouldn't necessarily be seen as transgender (not mentioning that one of those media sources was actually the BBC, plus it's obvious from the photos that Felix was a girl). ChatGPT automatically gives its view and does its own filter when I look for something online, and it's biased, with its own agenda. That's a pretty disastrous situation when magnified by everyone who uses the internet.

More importantly, it has been shown through the taxi driver studies and others that repetition of activities and interests create similar brain patterns when they are tested.

Again, it just means that a male brain is just another male brain even if they believe they are doing stereotypical female activities and interests.

Also, of course, a female brain structure has been proven to be a female brain structure. Shape and brain fibre structure.

And of course, estrogen will impact brains in similar ways physically too.

I agree that this study is terribly flawed.

But even if it wasn't, all it would show is that the spectrum of male behaviour/attitudes/psychology is broader than we imagined.

If it was possible to isolate a group of males who have different brain activity than other males - they are still a subset of males.

They are not actually women who found themselves in the 'wrong body' because that is pure science fiction.

Same here, I grew up playing with Lego, carving out caves in muddy cliff sides and generally getting filthy, hated Barbie (I cut the hair off my sister's) and stuffed a dress my mum tried to force me to wear into the toilet. Looking back, I didn't really identify as either a boy or a girl and was described as a tomboy. I still have more typically 'male' (if there is such a thing) characteristics bar my physical appearance.

Following on from Hoardasaurass's post.

The study you mention did not allow for same sex attracted in results. And the 'cluster' of those people were still well within the male range. They were not in the female range.

Did you ever look at the study yourself? Or was it just mentioned in your course?

If the term 'mental illness' doesn't work, what is the term that will describe a situation where someone needs to believe in a subjective reality based on their philosophical belief that is not reflective of material reality? And then expects others to act as if that subjective reality is material reality too?

Thats from a very flawed study and has been repeatedly disproved. Cross sex hormones dont change a male brain into a female brain and it doesn't change a female brain into a male brain.
The thing most people forget is that it wasn't until men started claiming that they are women and deserve all of our rights and that they are the only people who deserve rights that women started to fight back.
Men can never be any type of women they are men

The coercive aspect of the situation is so often completely dismissed isn't it?

There really is some very concerning elements to all this. After 6 years or so, I still cannot get my head around the willingness for some people to unthinkingly support allowing someone else's constructed reality in this way.

This what gets to me too.

It's abusive.

Do what I say and affirm me or I'll kill myself.

On the relationship board this behaviour is recognised for what it is. When it comes to trans identification we're apparently bigots for pointing it out.

No because it doesn't help and I'd never be involved in affirming anyone's delusions.
33% of trans identifying children are autistic vs 4% of the general population 25% are in care vs less than 2% of the general population then theres the CSA and gay/lesbian stats which show that they are massively overrepresented as well.
Also its a well known tactic of emotionally abusive people to claim that they will kill themselves if you dont do what they want and should never be pandered to.
Please stop spreading the myth of trans suicide as its a harmful lie

Yes transvestites have been around forever. I remember as a kid a man down the street wearing lippy and dresses and of coruse we all thought it was weird but left him to it as he wasn't hurting anyone. They didn't demand we call them she then, they didn't demand we enabled their delusions.

It's all changed now because of the activism surrounding men identifying as women and women have been pushed too far.

It also claims that non binary is not a trans identity 🙄 and has to go all the way back to 1982 to get 4 women 3 of which are trans identifying and ignores things like the trans identifying male who killed the 2 lesbians and their son because the TIM was banned from a lesbian event.
If anything that article shows how they will keep trying to manipulate figures to hide quite how dangerous they are, its the same with suicide stats. As polly carmichel (then head of the Tavistock clinic) stated under oath trans identifying people are no more likely to kill themselves than any other MH patient, a fact that was born out by professor Applebys report into trans suicide. The often quoted 41% figure comes from a self selecting question of 27 people 13 of whom said yes to the question "have you ever thought about suicide". Its a loaded question and far to small a sample to give even an indication of anything yet you'll see that 41% suicide figure repeated everywhere. Its all about the narrative of trans vulnerability rather than an honest discussion about the risks posed by this group

I can not work out how the general public has been made to accept that they are responsible for being therapeutic resources for a group of people who demand or request that their subjective reality is treated as the universal material reality. I would never have believed so many people have acted as if this an acceptable expectation.

There are recognised links between autism, transgender identity, eating disorders and body dysmorphia.

Trans identifying males are more dangerous than any other male as they're 5 times more likely to be a sex offender than men who identifies as a man (see handy graph below which should MOJ and ONS stats) also the number of trans mass killers should be looked at as a per capita number rather than a direct number as trans identifying people make up a tiny %of the population, when you look at the figures at a per capita level trans identifying mass killers are higher than any other group (sorry dont have a graph for those figures yet)

This. It’s not going to happen and they need to be made aware of that. It’s not “kind” to pretend everyone sees them as what they are not.

You mean there have always been people who believed they were or should have been the opposite sex, due to some cultural or subconscious personal symbolism or metaphor they associate with that sex.

It's very much the same as there have always been people who believe they can sense the dead or communicate with gods.

In some societies these beliefs are seen to be "real" and form part of the culture. In others they are seen as delusions or myths.

Transgenderism is no different, it's just our modern way of framing a very old thought pattern.

In reality, all three common beliefs are natural consequences of the way humans impose our own connections and meanings onto our environment.

Exactly. These people are never going to have to deal with the consequences of women not being able to have single sex spaces.

They should realise their privilege here and take a back seat.

There's also a strong correlation with neurodivergence, particularly among teens - who later often regret transitioning. When JK Rowling pointed this out in a perfectly eloquent essay, she became a pariah. My (nd) teenage niece is heading this way (experimenting with trans/ non binary when she's actually most likely gay). Her friendship group consists of one non binary individual, and one girl who identifies as a boy.

But what is the actual difference between what you refer to as a true transwoman and all the others? They are all men who want to be women.

This is the issue! This! The likes of Ed Balls on breakfast TV being shocked that we don’t all want to share spaces with ‘transwomen’ that we don’t know smacks of the middle class champagne socialism bubble he lives in. Like they cannot think that some people might just dress as a women to be a predator, because sexual predators aren’t something they need to think of in their cosy middle class lives.

Agreed. You cannot expect people to lie to make you feel better and it’s dangerous to think they will. We should live in an honest society. That’s why I’ll never vote for a politician like Ed Davey. If he’s prepared to lie about something as significant as someone’s gender what else is he prepared to turn a blind eye to?

IDGAF
I care about the vulnerable kids that are fed a lie and face a life of mutilation and suicide ideation.

I care about the kids that didn't go home to their families because another kid fucked up on cross sex hormones decided to take them out because his parents indulged him.
Am I right in thinking he killed them too?

Thanks for the clarification. We need to do the research I guess. Except that that is being stifled and/or simply not funded.

I agree that “trans” is often a manifestation of other problems. Which is kind of useful in a way.

The fact you would add “trans” to the list of warning signs is telling.