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Why can't women be charged with rape?

382 replies

Ourlovelyson · 11/02/2026 20:13

My son attempted to take his life last year. Turns out his partner has been abusive and she was drugging him with Viagra being him aroused and sitting on top of him he kept telling her no but she did what she wanted to do. But rape is defined by the penetrating male, my son is not the person he once was.
I have been on Google for weeks and I can't find anything to help him. He obviously isn't the only one.
Why is this?

OP posts:
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Allisnotlost1 · 14/02/2026 14:25

So I read up a little on different jurisdictions, and I can see that your point re symbolic recognition of severity could be meaningful for some victims. However from what I can see (on a whistle stop research tour), widening the definition doesn’t necessarily result in more convictions. And E&W generally sentences more harshly across the spectrum (and that’s baked in via the sentencing guidelines, as you say).

So then I can only conclude that neither that nor the current set up is inherently ‘better’ for victims. It depends what a victim wants from the process.

Allisnotlost1 · 14/02/2026 11:08

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 22:48

But the PP is objectivsly correct.

By having distinct offences for rape (by penis) and SA with penetration, the UK's law has created a sentencing disparity that doesn't exist in other jurisdictions.

There disparity is plain in the sentencing guidelines. Although both carry the same maximum sentence, the starting points and the typical ranges are lower for assault by penetration. That means that acts that are broadly equivalent are sentenced differently in the UK, in a way that doesn't occur in other jurisdictions that treat penetration similarly.

That’s not a controversial opinion - it’s exactly what the Sentencing Council’s own guidelines produce.

To add - even in countries that do not make rape a gendered offence (because they don't have the by-penis requirement), where it was by-penis, that is very often relevant to aggravating factors for sentencing.

The difference is that other jurisdictions, with wider definitions of the underlying offence, tend to evaluate pregnancy risk or disease transition risk as the relevant aggravating factors, and the end result tends to be higher sentences for penile rapes but without the more vast disparity seen in the UK.

E.g., in countries without a separate penis-based offence, where a rape occurred by-penis, and the victims vagina were penetrated, there will usually be an uplift for pregnancy risk, that would not be the case for an anal or oral penetration offence.

Rape by-penis would also generally result in an aggravating factor of disease risk, which might vary as between higher risk penetrations (vaginal or anal) vs oral.

The UK is the relative outlier, because it's categorization and sentencing set-up is not based so directly on actual harm and risks, but more a general sense of the "specialness" of the penis. In that sense, it seems more like a holdover of antiquated ideas of degrees of defilement, underpinned by latent sexism.

And, as the PP has repeatedly pointed out, it is women and girls who are by far and away more likely to be victims of all sorts of sexual offence, so it is very fair to say that the UK's approach results in worse outcomes for women and girls compared to jurisdictions that view non-penile penetrations more similarly wrongful in principle, even if risk variance can justify a higher sentence.

Edited

It’s not objectively correct to say there is a disparity. They are different offences in E&W law, so there is no disparity. The law in this country does not see those offences as broadly equivalent, and neither do many on the thread.

PP and you are arguing to subsume sexual offences into a single category and pick through aggravating and mitigating factors for sentencing.

I’m not familiar enough with sentencing in jurisdictions with such a broad definition to comment but, as you suggest, pregnancy risk is an aggravating factor. That’s already accounted for in the E&W category of rape. I’d be very surprised to learn that anal or oral penetration with a penis didn’t result in some sentencing uplift in countries that have that broad definition. I will go and read up on it.

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 22:48

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 17:15

I didn’t pick out any cases at all, I agree that comparing individual cases is pointless. The pp posted a case to attempt to prove their point that women are treated more leniently because they are charged differently. I pointed out that this example doesn’t do that.

Many victims of many crimes believe their perpetrator or perpetrators in general are treated leniently, so picking out this individual case also tells us nothing about the bigger picture.

But the PP is objectivsly correct.

By having distinct offences for rape (by penis) and SA with penetration, the UK's law has created a sentencing disparity that doesn't exist in other jurisdictions.

There disparity is plain in the sentencing guidelines. Although both carry the same maximum sentence, the starting points and the typical ranges are lower for assault by penetration. That means that acts that are broadly equivalent are sentenced differently in the UK, in a way that doesn't occur in other jurisdictions that treat penetration similarly.

That’s not a controversial opinion - it’s exactly what the Sentencing Council’s own guidelines produce.

To add - even in countries that do not make rape a gendered offence (because they don't have the by-penis requirement), where it was by-penis, that is very often relevant to aggravating factors for sentencing.

The difference is that other jurisdictions, with wider definitions of the underlying offence, tend to evaluate pregnancy risk or disease transition risk as the relevant aggravating factors, and the end result tends to be higher sentences for penile rapes but without the more vast disparity seen in the UK.

E.g., in countries without a separate penis-based offence, where a rape occurred by-penis, and the victims vagina were penetrated, there will usually be an uplift for pregnancy risk, that would not be the case for an anal or oral penetration offence.

Rape by-penis would also generally result in an aggravating factor of disease risk, which might vary as between higher risk penetrations (vaginal or anal) vs oral.

The UK is the relative outlier, because it's categorization and sentencing set-up is not based so directly on actual harm and risks, but more a general sense of the "specialness" of the penis. In that sense, it seems more like a holdover of antiquated ideas of degrees of defilement, underpinned by latent sexism.

And, as the PP has repeatedly pointed out, it is women and girls who are by far and away more likely to be victims of all sorts of sexual offence, so it is very fair to say that the UK's approach results in worse outcomes for women and girls compared to jurisdictions that view non-penile penetrations more similarly wrongful in principle, even if risk variance can justify a higher sentence.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 13/02/2026 19:19

I can’t offer any advice, i just wanted to tell you how sorry I am to hear that.
I wish your family all the very best.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 17:19

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:47

They often drop charges for several reasons. Money, public interest, lack of resources, not bothered.

Physical harm is one part of the trauma caused by rape. One could argue that a baby is unlikely to be psychologically scarred by what occurred whereas this happened to the teen at a pivotal time of life she will never forget.

You really don’t understand it at all do you?

You know, the only people I’ve heard suggest babies might not be psychologically scarred by being raped are… rapists.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 17:15

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:48

I don't think picking out 2 cases proves anything definitively, but if we are doing that - Case 3 was 4 counts of rape plus one of attempted rape.

That's very similar to Rosana Awan, and in her case, the victim was younger and Awan was in a position of trust, which is a major aggravating factor for sentencing.

Her victim's view is that female on female abuse isn't treated seriously enough:

I didn’t pick out any cases at all, I agree that comparing individual cases is pointless. The pp posted a case to attempt to prove their point that women are treated more leniently because they are charged differently. I pointed out that this example doesn’t do that.

Many victims of many crimes believe their perpetrator or perpetrators in general are treated leniently, so picking out this individual case also tells us nothing about the bigger picture.

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:52

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:49

And the greatest harm to women and children comes from men, who use their fists and penises to hurt us. That won’t change in 100, 400 or 1000 years, and yet you want that folded in, collapsed, so that all sexual harm is the same?

Damn right you’re not about sisterhood. And not even personhood because you’ve chosen to hijack the thread of a parent who is dealing with harm to their son, derailing it with lurid descriptions of sexual violence and asking people to choose which is worse.

Grotesque.

Edited

Oh and I didnt propose those scenarios at all! I was asked to pick which was worse.

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:51

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:49

And the greatest harm to women and children comes from men, who use their fists and penises to hurt us. That won’t change in 100, 400 or 1000 years, and yet you want that folded in, collapsed, so that all sexual harm is the same?

Damn right you’re not about sisterhood. And not even personhood because you’ve chosen to hijack the thread of a parent who is dealing with harm to their son, derailing it with lurid descriptions of sexual violence and asking people to choose which is worse.

Grotesque.

Edited

So all forced sex is treated as rape, yes. Not all sexual harm. I wouldnt want cat calling treated as rape, but I would want it to be classed as sexual harassment should the victim want it to be.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:49

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:44

Did I refer to men as us? I am using they to mean the group I speak of. In a hundred years, I could speak about the same issue but a different group are the ones most affected or most likely to offend.

It is actually only barely relevant that I am a part of that group because it isnt about sisterhood, it is about what is right and protecting the most vulnerable. Women and children are the most vulnerable when it comes to rape.

And the greatest harm to women and children comes from men, who use their fists and penises to hurt us. That won’t change in 100, 400 or 1000 years, and yet you want that folded in, collapsed, so that all sexual harm is the same?

Damn right you’re not about sisterhood. And not even personhood because you’ve chosen to hijack the thread of a parent who is dealing with harm to their son, derailing it with lurid descriptions of sexual violence and asking people to choose which is worse.

Grotesque.

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:48

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:29

Case 1: 17 offences - compared to the sports coach’s 4.

Case 2: 12 offences (and are you really so tin eared that you’d compare the rape of a baby to any other type of sexual violence?)

Case 3: Closer, but still five counts of rape.

Edited

I don't think picking out 2 cases proves anything definitively, but if we are doing that - Case 3 was 4 counts of rape plus one of attempted rape.

That's very similar to Rosana Awan, and in her case, the victim was younger and Awan was in a position of trust, which is a major aggravating factor for sentencing.

Her victim's view is that female on female abuse isn't treated seriously enough:

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:47

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:43

Do you not really understand how the criminal justice system works? The police will attempt to get charges on as many counts as they can, and the CPS will only authorise if they have >50% chance of conviction (higher in SO cases). If they were able to charge one person with 5 and one with 17, that’s because they could find sufficient evidence for those charges.

The age of children in SO cases makes a difference to charging and sentencing. A 13 year old and a baby are different categories of victim. And please don’t tell me you’re so ignorant of anatomy that you think the harm caused to a baby by an adult penis is the same as penetration to an older child. To be honest it disgusts me that you even need this spelling out but there we are.

That’s not how the law works, trust me they want to go as hard as possible on anyone and everyone.

They often drop charges for several reasons. Money, public interest, lack of resources, not bothered.

Physical harm is one part of the trauma caused by rape. One could argue that a baby is unlikely to be psychologically scarred by what occurred whereas this happened to the teen at a pivotal time of life she will never forget.

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:44

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:38

Well you’ve referred to women as ‘them’ a couple of times so I presume you’re not one of us.

Did I refer to men as us? I am using they to mean the group I speak of. In a hundred years, I could speak about the same issue but a different group are the ones most affected or most likely to offend.

It is actually only barely relevant that I am a part of that group because it isnt about sisterhood, it is about what is right and protecting the most vulnerable. Women and children are the most vulnerable when it comes to rape.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:43

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:35

Case 1 : so you are pointing out that they only charged a woman with 2 offences for prolonged grooming of a child in her professional care, whereas they charged a man with 17. Does that mean they went harder on him than her?

Case 2: also a child. The person for 2 x plus the sentence that she did.

Case 3: same as case 1. They went harder on the man because they viewed the rape by a woman as less traumatic.

Do you not really understand how the criminal justice system works? The police will attempt to get charges on as many counts as they can, and the CPS will only authorise if they have >50% chance of conviction (higher in SO cases). If they were able to charge one person with 5 and one with 17, that’s because they could find sufficient evidence for those charges.

The age of children in SO cases makes a difference to charging and sentencing. A 13 year old and a baby are different categories of victim. And please don’t tell me you’re so ignorant of anatomy that you think the harm caused to a baby by an adult penis is the same as penetration to an older child. To be honest it disgusts me that you even need this spelling out but there we are.

That’s not how the law works, trust me they want to go as hard as possible on anyone and everyone.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:38

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:35

Who is this he you speak of?

Well you’ve referred to women as ‘them’ a couple of times so I presume you’re not one of us.

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:35

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:31

Yes, because he was using that case to demonstrate his point, and it doesn’t prove that, it disproves it. I didn’t post the case, I responded to his post claiming it illustrated something that it doesn’t.

Who is this he you speak of?

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:35

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:29

Case 1: 17 offences - compared to the sports coach’s 4.

Case 2: 12 offences (and are you really so tin eared that you’d compare the rape of a baby to any other type of sexual violence?)

Case 3: Closer, but still five counts of rape.

Edited

Case 1 : so you are pointing out that they only charged a woman with 2 offences for prolonged grooming of a child in her professional care, whereas they charged a man with 17. Does that mean they went harder on him than her?

Case 2: also a child. The person for 2 x plus the sentence that she did.

Case 3: same as case 1. They went harder on the man because they viewed the rape by a woman as less traumatic.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:33

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:32

Hers was 5 offences, not 2.

You’re right, my mistake.

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:32

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:29

Case 1: 17 offences - compared to the sports coach’s 4.

Case 2: 12 offences (and are you really so tin eared that you’d compare the rape of a baby to any other type of sexual violence?)

Case 3: Closer, but still five counts of rape.

Edited

Hers was 5 offences, not 2.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:31

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:26

You said "this case disproves your point that women are treated more leniently than male rapists."

I essentially quoted you (I dropped "your point").

Yes, because he was using that case to demonstrate his point, and it doesn’t prove that, it disproves it. I didn’t post the case, I responded to his post claiming it illustrated something that it doesn’t.

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:29

Case 1: 17 offences - compared to the sports coach’s 4.

Case 2: 12 offences (and are you really so tin eared that you’d compare the rape of a baby to any other type of sexual violence?)

Case 3: Closer, but still five counts of rape.

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:26

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:21

Im saying no such thing, im saying this case does not prove what the pp has been claiming, and I’m citing his own sources (average sentence lengths from Sentencing Academy).

You said "this case disproves your point that women are treated more leniently than male rapists."

I essentially quoted you (I dropped "your point").

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:24

SlayBelle · 13/02/2026 16:20

They don't. Because in the UK that's not what rape means.

Your objection is purely semantic. Changing the definition makes no material difference to the harm experienced by the victims.

Your whole argument boils down to: 'not just men, women too!'. Which is simply a tool for deflecting away from the fact that overwhelmingly, men perpetrate the majority of sexual offences and overwhelmingly, women and children are their victims.

If women do commit sexual offences, they are notable because they are rare outliers in a predominantly male field.

I dont get why you dont want a woman who forces sex on a teenage girl to be termed a rapist. I really dont. Especially knowing that it will likely get her a longer sentence.

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:23

SlayBelle · 13/02/2026 16:20

They don't. Because in the UK that's not what rape means.

Your objection is purely semantic. Changing the definition makes no material difference to the harm experienced by the victims.

Your whole argument boils down to: 'not just men, women too!'. Which is simply a tool for deflecting away from the fact that overwhelmingly, men perpetrate the majority of sexual offences and overwhelmingly, women and children are their victims.

If women do commit sexual offences, they are notable because they are rare outliers in a predominantly male field.

You're the one arguing semantics here. You're (apparently) saying that men can't can't claim a woman forced them to have sex because the UK law doesn't call that "rape", rather "sexual assault".

Men can, and do, claim they were forced to have sex. See the OP.

ThatGreatCritic · 13/02/2026 16:22

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:20

Regardless of anyone’s opinion of the sentence, it is the same length as the average sentence for rape, so this case does not illustrate that SA by women is treated more leniently, as you have persistently claimed.

https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater-manchester/news/news/2025/october/abuser-jailed-for-20-years-for-sexual-offences-and-encouraging-a-child-to-self-harm-in-landmark-case/

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2026/january-2026/man-from-st-helens-jailed-after-raping-a-baby/

22 years he got ^

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/operation-stovewood-15-years-in-prison-for-man-who-raped-rotherham-schoolgirl

Allisnotlost1 · 13/02/2026 16:21

DeepBlueDeer · 13/02/2026 16:18

You're the one saying this case disproves that women are treated more leniently than male rapists, it's on you to back that up.

(Even if she had received the maximum sentence, it wouldn't disprove anything, FWIW - standalone sentencings aren't proof of much when we're talking averages).

Im saying no such thing, im saying this case does not prove what the pp has been claiming, and I’m citing his own sources (average sentence lengths from Sentencing Academy).