To be confused by 'high earners' complaining about taxes?

The answer to both of those problems is innovation. As arms become more technologically intensive (look at drones in Ukraine, for example), countries will buy from whoever has the most effective systems for sale. Only the lowest value added products become commodities.

Tech is a promising area for British exports, thanks to innovation. Look at Darktrace, a world leader in AI driven cybersecurity. It was started by a group of mathematicians from Cambridge.

But if you don’t believe success is possible, then it isn’t.

when you have a number of players all selling weapons, etc then at some point via what ever methods some will get them cheaper, and then it reduces profits etc, plus wars can only last for so long, after all humans can only spend so much on weapons before they run out of battles,

as for the services again you only need so many people to sell the services to and when you have American giants eg JP Morgan, BlackRock etc then how can we compete with them and other countries, etc

The worldwide export market for arms is over 600b USD per year, and the UK’s share of that is only 3.6%. There is plenty of room to expand its market share.

https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2025-03/fs_2503_at_2024_0.pdf

You’re assuming that military spending will go down globally and that British firms can’t compete effectively. I doubt either of those assumptions are correct.

And what about expanding service exports? Is that doomed to fail as well?

Exactly, the UK needs a growth strategy. A rising tide lifts all boats.

The current Labour government seems intent on alienating wealth creators and destroying value and growth. Unfortunately, the 'strategy' if you can call it one is to tax the 'high earning' pips till they squeak rather than nurture growth. Short termism dominates as does political survival by Starmer. He is weak leader to not bring his left leaning backbenchers in line who want to keep the benefits gravy train going so they do not lose their seats in the next election.

It is politics over the economy and the UK is an economic basket case. The real fear is Labour is paving the way for Reform in the next election.

if we want to grow the pie then we need to use spooks for rigging the stock markets etc

but the war economy can only last for so long then when you eventually get other countries joining in the arms trade, then gun runners and then Pmc companies etc at some point they will get cheaper weapons elsewhere

One possibility is growth in exports. Germany and other Eurozone countries are expanding their militaries in response to Russian expansionism. The UK has several leading arms manufacturers. If they can compete for and win some of that business it would result in thousands of new jobs in the UK.

Services are another area where exports could grow. Financial services, professional services, software and technology are all areas that can add well paying jobs. But the UK needs to up its game to be more competitive,

https://www.britishchambers.org.uk/news/2025/10/budget-must-give-uk-competitive-edge/

One thing that’s clear from this thread is that everyone is focused on how to divide a static or dwindling pie rather than looking at how to grow it, which would raise tax revenue without increasing tax rates.

yea but growth in what, and even then with robots, ai, etc you would still only need a few workers overall.

You’re assuming that the economy is static. It might be close to that now, but if there was more economic growth, new jobs would be created.

but then the problem is society only needs so many workers for so many businesses to make a profit etc so what to do with the rest of the workers if there was no benefit system ?

Can he not ‘offshore’ to avoid some of the tax ? 😉

Some are unpleasant working conditions. Mate's fella works on an oil rig, he's essentially locked away from the world for 3 weeks at a time but he gets paid a fortune.

One outcome of a benefit system that encourages people to become dependent on it is that it also inevitably fosters resentment towards those funding it. It needs a massive rethink in order to encourage self reliance.

That’s the initial comment / argument I responded to. The start of this thread.

The obvious next question is, what sector am I discussing? This is horticulture. No you can't eat it, so some people will assume it's purely decorative.

Forgive me, but I am going to exclude the 0.5% of high tax payers here, and concentrate on the vast middle. IMO, very ordinary, earners doing ordinary jobs in offices and workshops for SMEs (I am deliberately excluding the NHS here) are getting very hard done by. They can't ask their SME employer for more money, because since the hikes in Employer's NI contribution and the increase in the NMW, their employer is squeaking at every pip. My DS, apprentice on MW in the SE, paying £1000 pm for accommodation is worrying that his employer who only recently bought a business is about to lose everything. Rachel Reeves' fevered ignorance will have a lot to answer for.

If you're arguing that high earners aren't any more skilled than anyone else, why do you think they're highly paid? Why doesn't everyone just take these highly paid jobs if they're no different to anything else?

I think this is a very naive perspective. Many people are wealthy enough that there is no 'career ladder'. It's generational wealth, family connections, things most people even the upper middle class don't have. Not to mention the privilege that gives some people access to those top of the pyramid jobs. We don't live in a meritocracy, it's not purely based on hard work and effort. Wealth and privilege play such a huge role.

The core problem is low economic growth and productivity, which has multiple causes, including high rates of taxation.

https://www.thetimes.com/business/economics/article/uk-economy-slow-growth-final-months-of-2025-www.thetimes.com/business/economics/article/uk-economy-slow-growth-final-months-of-2025-gdp-8gqgjwgn0?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqfSj7oTLSCrXOFuZTgBr0b3i9Im1UTL9e25tYLgSnbBpVtkv3zpA4aQhO8mZrU%3D&gaa_ts=698e3186&gaa_sig=xXKlkUQP1pfEjbrPfbK6iB69EcUlJncJDd2Hk-bqYrRFV6t7in6l7TSrYnqdGc2D3jDvpbdOb0s8gE3u0rnN1g%3D%3D

Before that, if course

Rather think it does.

@glitterpaperchain Not to the extent of some other highly paid people or they would be running John Lewis or be Cabinet Secretary. Teachers can become heads and get well over £100,000. It’s like a pyramid. The top earn more. It’s the same in most careers. If you want high earnings, there’s lots of competition for the jobs. Often internationally. To be a teacher or nurse, not much competition.

These people could try for other careers, but have decided not to. It’s not about the work, it’s about scarcity of the required talent. I think most nurses or teachers would not be able to run John Lewis. Had they been able to, they should have tried for a different career.

@MyDenimExpert Intelligence and skill isn't usually there in those who "still work hard but don't have the paycheck to show for it".

Just to confirm, nurses and teachers don't have intelligence and/or skill? Is that what you're saying?

and you cannot tax the rich because they can and do have the ability to use fancy tax accounting methods and can use off shore etc

All those people defending billionaires and saying we shouldn’t tax them more… I’m intrigued as to what your solution is?

you cant tax the poor more - they just don’t have it.

you cant tax middle earners more - theyre all just squeezed.

there aren’t any savings to be found otherwise any one of the governments in the last 20 years would have found them.

so what do we do? Tax the rich more or just accept that we don’t really have public services any more?