Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

Funny story …

We go to a local theatre every Christmas as they host a wonderful theatre company for their annual pantomime. The village primary school always go to watch too so my DS has seen it twice every year since 2021.
Last year there was no ‘handy little bench’ but this time DS came running out of school after the theatre visit shouting ‘the handy little bench is back!!’ . I didn’t even notice it hadn’t featured but DS was obviously fond of it 😂😂

My husband has also been the Dame’s boyfriend 3 years running so that’s becoming an interesting tradition!

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

we’ll have to do it again then, won’t we, wooooo!

What are you on.

It must have been good. I am pretty certain DH went to see that. He would have been 6 or 7. MIL still talks about it!

The physical way they portray themselves, costumes always include big fake boobs and as in Les dawson's act, hoisting their sagging boobs with their elbows.

We’re talking about pantomime dames. Why are you talking about Les Dawson?
Why are boobs problematic? Or a negative stereotype?

The fact they are often lonely and searching for a husband, man hungry.

Man hungry is pushing it a bit 🙄
But why is being single a negative stereotype of an older woman? If you see that as problematic then you need to ask why.

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

You actually don’t understand how a pantomime works do you? 😂😂😂
All the main ‘good’ characters do this anyway so hardly a negative stereotype about older women.

Or as in the drag artists, nasty bitchy jealous women tropes. Ugly sisters.

You literally can’t post without mentioning drag can you? I’ve also never seen a pantomime where the dame was nasty. As for the ugly sisters… that actually their character! lol

These roles were originally played by men because women were not allowed on stage.

And? As character they tend to be written for men, and that’s okay.

My main issue is that the casts are male heavy. A quick google produces this from 2025
Cinderella dandini dame men women
not sure what you’re actually trying to say here but you seem a little obsessed with Cinderella - other pantomimes are available. You might find a better gender balance too but I guess that would go against your narrative though wouldn’t it?

The formatting has gone crazy but all the Dame roles and Principal boy roles in the first pantos I found are played by men.

This is problematic for women because there are less jobs

Then the ratio of main parts are 3 to 1 so it's problematic for women.

That's in addition to the way in which men playing the dame portray older women.

Then you get the encroachment of drag artist playing the role of dame but as the female character such as Courtney Act and Craig Revel Horwood.

Ok

The physical way they portray themselves, costumes always include big fake boobs and as in Les dawson's act, hoisting their sagging boobs with their elbows.

The fact they are often lonely and searching for a husband, man hungry.

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

Or as in the drag artists, nasty bitchy jealous women tropes. Ugly sisters.

These roles were originally played by men because women were not allowed on stage.

My main issue is that the casts are male heavy. A quick google produces this from 2025

Cinderella dandini dame men women

Windsor male male 6 2
Welwyn male male 6 2
Nottingham male male 4 2
Norwich male male 5 2
Bournemth. male male 3 2
Brighton male male 3 2
Edinburgh male male 3 0

I asked this of @Tankflopbut they’ve chosen not to answer so I’ll ask you too.
What specific misogynistic slurs does the pantomime dame portray? What specific negative stereotypes do they perpetuate?
And as you’ve specifically mentioned social class, what working class stereotypes are they portraying?

So? Just because an awards ceremony uses that term to distinguish between 'best actor' and 'best actress' so their trophies aren't overloaded with 'best male actor' or 'best female actor' doesn't mean that in everyday life, female performers should have to accept being referred to by a term they don't like. We've moved on from comedian and comedienne, after all.

The term 'actress' is generally accepted as being outdated in real life, and surely it is up to the individuals in the profession to decide.

You'd be surprised, certain parts of MN is weirdly anti panto, whereas in RL everyone I know loves it and grew up with it!

I'm not convinced the OP is being entirely serious.

Is it half term anywhere yet?

You were the one who brought it up. We’re not talking about drag though are we?
Why are you even bringing that into the conversation?

Dear Lord!

I do not think the Dame has a part to play in the awful statistics of violence and rape of women. I am very unhappy that you have twisted my words.

In reference to drag in my post, it’s not hard to understand that many drag acts where men dress as massively over sexualised women (I gave a good example) does nothing to change men’s view of women.

@Tankflopwhat specific negative stereotypes do pantomime dames portray? Which of those contribute to the rape and sexual assault of women? Which of those contribute to negative views of women in society?

I don’t want to hear about drag acts. They’re different. I want to know specifically what the negative impact the pantomime dame has on women.

The two drag artists I have mentioned

Craig Revel Horwood does play the female villan though.

which is what this thread is about, challenging unconscious bias.
No it isn’t.

I am challenging yours and other posters unconscious bias that a male actor playing the Dame role is funny and harmless. I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world (drag is far worse) but we would do well challenge traditions that normalise the idea that men dressed as exaggerated stereotypes of older women is actually funny. The dames often stereotype the inaccurate characteristics and mannerisms of women for laughs.

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The definition of the word actress is not sexist in any way. The word correctly defines a female actor. The poster claiming it is an outdated title is probably right but it’s still widely used as seen in the multiple links to best actress awards that people have posted on this thread.

So it’s outdated but not sexist? Okay.

The two concepts are not always related, something can be outdated but not sexist.

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Why do you think it’s outdated if it has nothing to
do with sexism?

Because I think some people believe using a gender neutral term eliminates biases which are prevalent against women in the industry. I personally don’t believe changing the title to the male version is helpful but I can understand that many female actors do. This is why i said it is outdated not that I believe it is sexist personally.

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On the other hand, a male acting in a show in an exaggerated stereotype of an older woman for laughs is a perfect example of internalized misogyny but people can’t see it, yet.

Again, if you’d ever actually seen a pantomime you’d realise that this is not the case. You’ve built the role of a pantomime dame up into something it isn’t and have got all angry about it. Bit the thing you’re getting angry about doesn’t actually exist.
You’re comparing it to a drag artist and that is not what the character is.
It’s a male character but your refusal to acknowledge that is influencing your views.

I agree the traditional dame is not exactly the same as drag but there are similarities, they both depict women as exaggerated stereotypes for laughs, the dame has more innuendo and drag way more sexualised but nowadays there is a cross over between panto and drag artists. Two well known drag artists in panto come to mind who do not play the part to look like men in women’s clothing.

Craig Revel Horwood is a regular in panto former drag queen

Courtney Act who actually came straight out of Ru Paul’s drag race to star in panto at Bradford last year and was billed as such.

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As I said before I have seen panto recently and hundreds of times over the last decades.

I think you, and other posters, keep asking this question because you can’t believe that I would see the Dame in a way that you don’t. I can understand how you might see it as funny because it’s just a tradition and it’s an male actor dressed as a woman and that in itself is funny to you. However, I see it quite differently. I have tried to explain but I totally understand that you have a different opinion. I’m not challenging whether you have seen one because that would be rude.

I have said I have multiple times.

Erm… you’re either an older female actor yourself, in which case you’re biased. Or you’re not, in which case it’s nothing to do with you.
And you ARE being unreasonable.

Genuine question @Tankflopwhen was the last time you saw a pantomime?

which is what this thread is about, challenging unconscious bias.

No it isn’t.

The definition of the word actress is not sexist in any way. The word correctly defines a female actor. The poster claiming it is an outdated title is probably right but it’s still widely used as seen in the multiple links to best actress awards that people have posted on this thread.
So it’s outdated but not sexist? Okay.
Why do you think it’s outdated if it has nothing to
do with sexism? I have no real strong feelings either way. I prefer to use gender neutral terms for job titles but that’s my preference.

On the other hand, a male acting in a show in an exaggerated stereotype of an older woman for laughs is a perfect example of internalized misogyny but people can’t see it, yet.

Again, if you’d ever actually seen a pantomime you’d realise that this is not the case. You’ve built the role of a pantomime dame up into something it isn’t and have got all angry about it. Bit the thing you’re getting angry about doesn’t actually exist.
You’re comparing it to a drag artist and that is not what the character is.
It’s a male character but your refusal to acknowledge that is influencing your views.

Another example is Drag, where mainstream acceptance of men dressing as a hugely unrealistic, exaggerated versions of women, fake boobs, overtly sexualised and bitchy patter is misogyny.

The unrealistic and exaggerated features, similar to the black and white minstrels which, right so, was abolished and an embarrassment to the entertainment industry.

This isn’t a thread about drag artists. If you want to discuss the rights and wrongs of drag then start a thread about it. By conflating the two issues you’re just tying yourself in knots.

The drag queen on RuPaul’s drag race whose act included him dressed as an exaggerated versions of a woman, huge fake boobs and squeezing fake milk out of his fake boobs into bottles onto a table for popular mainstream TV is absolutely disgusting:

What has that got to do with a pantomime. What do you think is actually happening at a family focused Christmas pantomime?

1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetime by a man and women are still having to take companies to court for unfair dismissal due to ageism and sexism towards older women so we can do without being depicted as stereotypes by men for laughs.
Men dressing as a female stereotype whether it is an older woman, bitchy woman or lactating woman is misogyny plain and simple.

You sound unhinged. As a women who has been sexually assaulted numerous times I think you are being ridiculous. Again, I’ll ask what that fuck does this have to do with a character in a pantomime?

The word Actress, however, is just a definition, although I’m happy to use actor if she so wishes but often this needs clarification that it’s the female actor we are referring to.

Yes, because of unconscious bias.

which is what this thread is about, challenging unconscious bias.

The definition of the word actress is not sexist in any way. The word correctly defines a female actor. The poster claiming it is an outdated title is probably right but it’s still widely used as seen in the multiple links to best actress awards that people have posted on this thread.

On the other hand, a male acting in a show in an exaggerated stereotype of an older woman for laughs is a perfect example of internalized misogyny but people can’t see it, yet.

Another example is Drag, where mainstream acceptance of men dressing as a hugely unrealistic, exaggerated versions of women, fake boobs, overtly sexualised and bitchy patter is misogyny. The unrealistic and exaggerated features, similar to the black and white minstrels which, right so, was abolished and an embarrassment to the entertainment industry.

The drag queen on RuPaul’s drag race whose act included him dressed as an exaggerated versions of a woman, huge fake boobs and squeezing fake milk out of his fake boobs into bottles onto a table for popular mainstream TV is absolutely disgusting:

1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetime by a man and women are still having to take companies to court for unfair dismissal due to ageism and sexism towards older women so we can do without being depicted as stereotypes by men for laughs.

Men dressing as a female stereotype whether it is an older woman, bitchy woman or lactating woman is misogyny plain and simple.

The word Actress, however, is just a definition, although I’m happy to use actor if she so wishes but often this needs clarification that it’s the female actor we are referring to.