Page 18 | Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 2026-02-08T15:31:51+00:00

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play *Mother Goose* as a *Witch *(^how original^) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag. I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

Hairybuf · 08/02/2026 19:42

Ok, cool.

I’ve seen several productions of Shakespeare plays where traditionally male roles have been played by a woman. I thought it was an interesting new take and way of reinventing well know plays - however, I now realise talented male actors should be reclaiming those parts from women.

rosa17 · 08/02/2026 19:38

As usual with these veiled anti LGBT posts the self-appointed 'experts' don't tell the whole story. Here's an interesting article on the real history of pantomime if anyone is interested https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-story-of-pantomime?

The story of pantomime · V&A

The familiar trappings of the classic British panto owe much to the innovations of Victorian entrepreneurs, performers and designers

https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/the-story-of-pantomime

JustOnePersonNotAnOctopus · 08/02/2026 19:33

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 08/02/2026 17:41

Panto male roles played by women were created for the male gaze - that's not equality - stop pretending it is. That's why the women are all in tights and very short tunics.

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I don’t think I did say it was about equality? It’s about the conventions of British pantomime.

Stop pretending you are smart.

PuppyMonkey · 08/02/2026 19:00

I haven’t been to a panto for ten years or so but even back then, I don’t think I ever saw Prince Charming or whoever played by a woman. I don’t think that tradition is still going at all. That was always played by Darren Day or someone equally cheesy.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 08/02/2026 18:54

taxi4ballet · 08/02/2026 18:40

Have you actually asked any female musical theatre performers whether they would want to play the dame in panto? Surely they are the ones who would be pushing for it if they thought it was unfair that only men get to play that role.

I also think that perhaps Equity, the Actors' Union might be pursuing it as well, if their female members wanted it.

I asked this earlier but it was ignored by the OP.

WiddlinDiddlin · 08/02/2026 18:52

Theatre... was invented by men though, at least if you follow the Ancient greek route to modern theatre (the Romans were more reasonable and let woman play minor non speaking roles occasionally).

Pantomime Dames have always been men, the gender role reversal is a part of the history, and goes back far far further than Pantomime itself does. It was absolutely not 'designed for older women'!

Madlentileater · 08/02/2026 18:51

don't worry, I'm sure plenty of posters disagreeing with OP are feminists
I don't know why the principal boy role is discounted because she wears tights?
Then the principal girl role is played by a woman
And depending on the story there could be other female roles- fairy godmother, Queen in sleeping beauty, etc

2dogsandabudgie · 08/02/2026 18:48

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 08/02/2026 17:47

It's not ridiculous.
You've been brought up with this norm and find it "normal".
It's not.
And it's not funny.

The script can be written differently with a lot more imagination for a female playing the role.

Panto Dames are based on a tired old misogynistic trope of women.
They allow the audience to laugh at (often older) female figures.

Where are the equivalent older male figures we all get to laugh at in pantos?

There aren't any because panto dames are misogynistic sexist tropes.
Just like the women in Benny Hill sketches.

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You might not find it funny but plenty of people do including women. The audience aren't laughing at an older woman character they are laughing at a man in a dress with outlandish costumes. It wouldn't be funny if it was played by a woman.

Tigerbalmshark · 08/02/2026 18:48

ErrolTheDragon · 08/02/2026 18:06

You might enjoy ‘Into the Woods’ OP - obviously not a panto for the kiddies but very funny without cross dressing.

pantomine ‘Dames’ are grotesques - I’m not sure if older women actors would want the parts. They’re often played by quite masculine actors - they’re not really that much like drag queens.

I’m curious if anyone had been to one of Julian Clary’s pantos - afaik he doesn’t play the ‘dame’ but instead some sort of fabulously clothed ‘spirit of something’ inventions - not sure how the dynamics of that works?

I saw him in Cinderella and no he definitely wasn’t the dame - he was a very catty Dandini who spent a lot of the show throwing shade at the Ugly Sisters, and vice versa.

PoliteSquid · 08/02/2026 18:42

Fucking hell OP I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to be so terminally offended!! This type of ludicrous argument is why I cannot take contemporary “feminists” seriously and have refused to describe myself as a feminist for a long long time!

IdentifyingAsAWoollyMammoth · 08/02/2026 18:42

Lobbygobbler · 08/02/2026 18:39

Theatre is in a dire situation and its attitudes towards women and working class people is shocking. Women are massively underrepresented on main stages and interesting female characters are few and far between. Pantomime dames are the last of women’s problems in theatre. If you really care about women start a campaign that women should write women’s stories. Same applies to TV.

In what way/ways is theatre in a dire situation? I ask that as someone that has worked in theatre for 30 years.

stclementine · 08/02/2026 18:42

I used to date an actor who played dames in a few pantos. Believe me he definitely wasn’t gay!!

taxi4ballet · 08/02/2026 18:40

Have you actually asked any female musical theatre performers whether they would want to play the dame in panto? Surely they are the ones who would be pushing for it if they thought it was unfair that only men get to play that role.

I also think that perhaps Equity, the Actors' Union might be pursuing it as well, if their female members wanted it.

Lobbygobbler · 08/02/2026 18:39

Theatre is in a dire situation and its attitudes towards women and working class people is shocking. Women are massively underrepresented on main stages and interesting female characters are few and far between. Pantomime dames are the last of women’s problems in theatre. If you really care about women start a campaign that women should write women’s stories. Same applies to TV.

2dogsandabudgie · 08/02/2026 18:38

Ablondiebutagoody · 08/02/2026 15:38

The old, male, panto Dame is the main reason that I go. Plenty of other roles for everyone else.

Agree with this, the man who plays the dame every year at my local theatre is hilarious. Everyone knows it's a bloke in a dress and he doesn't try and pretend otherwise. He's married with children and plays serious roles in other productions.

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 08/02/2026 18:38

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Original poster

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 08/02/2026 18:36

Emma8888 · 08/02/2026 17:49

Heaven forfend! By the OPs logic the only actors in a Shakespeare play should be male. After all, that’s how William wrote the plays!

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False equivalence and not very flattering for the bard.
In Shakespeare's day women were not allowed act - it was considered on a par with prostitution. Happily that is no longer the case.
What a lazy argument btw - do try harder next time.

OP posts:

taxi4ballet · 08/02/2026 18:35

Notmyreality · 08/02/2026 18:34

Start a petition OP. I’m sure it will go viral.

Panto season has just finished so I doubt it.

Notmyreality · 08/02/2026 18:34

Start a petition OP. I’m sure it will go viral.

SnowyPetals · 08/02/2026 18:32

IdentifyingAsAWoollyMammoth · 08/02/2026 16:53

And while we're about it, let's have a real horse or a real cow, none of these two actors in a costume, one as the head and front legs, and one as the arse and rear legs. Plenty of real livestock would be glad of the work.

My cat is livid that nobody has given him the opportunity to play Puss in Boots.

YouBelongHere · 08/02/2026 18:32

I think there is an argument to be had about how generally the 'funny' parts in panto's have always gone to men whilst women were just there to be pretty but tbh in recent years I do think it's gotten better. Saw Doreen Tipton in Wolverhampton and Birmingham, she was fantastic and got to be funny.

Panto dames though? Traditionally played by men. I'm not sure about your statistic that they're 'mostly played by gay men' either.

taxi4ballet · 08/02/2026 18:31

Oh yes, don't go to see Les Ballets Trockadero de Monte Carlo either.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 08/02/2026 18:26

LittleJustice · 08/02/2026 18:20

I think you've got that wrong there are plenty of decent female roles in Shakespeare's plays it was just that women weren't allowed to actually act on stage and so they had to be played by young boys.

I have to say that pantomimes are lowest common denominator entertainment and maybe audiences will vote with their feet but perhaps not I guess there's plenty of people who like that kind of stuff.

I can't stand drag either but again seems fairly popular, but then I hate strippers and again a lot of people go to see that male or female.

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Not everything has to be high brow.

Three are some excellent examples of pantomimes out there.
Our local village theatre hosts a theatre company every Christmas and their pantomime is absolutely brilliant. It sells out every year with people booking tickets for next year as they leave the theatre.
They have a male actor playing the dame and he always chooses someone to be his boyfriend - usually a dad sat with his family and that’s what makes it funny.

taxi4ballet · 08/02/2026 18:26

Bixo · 08/02/2026 18:16

OP, there are plenty of other theatrical productions you can go to. You can check the cast lists in advance, if you want to make sure that male actors play men and female actors play women.

If you don't like panto, then just don't go to panto. Have you considered that option?

You could just leave panto for all the people who do enjoy it, rather than trying to change it to fit your tastes. Or you could put on a production of your own?

This.

Oh, and er... avoid the musical Hairspray too.

JHound · 08/02/2026 18:22

Bertiebiscuit · 08/02/2026 17:37

Men dressing up as women, regardless of the reason, have always given me the ick and always will. Same as "blackface". Mocking disadvantaged people is not funny

It’s really not the same as blackface remotely. The history of drag and the history of blackface are not remotely similar.