Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

Where are you getting your “quotes” from?

Yes, I get the impression OP doesn’t know as much about panto or Victorian culture as she has implied.

Also, have you ever been in the cheap seats at the theatre 😂 can barely see anything.

Err so you’re just annoyed that you don’t have an attractive man to look at when you’re at the theatre?
Also, do lesbians and bi sexual women not go to the theatre?

The point you continue to ignore is that often the same character is specifically written to be played by a man. That is where the humour lies and is part of the traditional pantomime.

If a theatre company wants to write that role for a women, then they can. But it changes the dynamic of that particular character.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Linehan_(entertainer)

Here's our panto dame. Been the star of the show at the Grand Opera House in Belfast (which is right beside the Europa hotel and had suffered from the Europa's oft quoted claim to fame ) for decades.

I thought most ballet companies these days were pretty international.

At one point in the '70s, we went to Goldilocks at Weymouth Pavilion, and they had real bearcubs on stage at one point. Wouldn't happen now, for the same reason we don't have circuses with animals any more.

I detest audience participation, so have never been keen on panto, but one year when my German boyfriend was over, I got him to sit through a panto on TV. I explained there are very set roles, like the dame, the principal boy, the fairy godmother, the baddy, regardless of whichever story it actually is, plus audience participation in terms "oh yes it is! Oh no it isn't!" and "look behind you!" And the general silliness is the whole point of it. I don't think he quite got it. (Nor Morris dancers, when I ended up accidentally at a Morris festival with him.) But I'm ambivalent about who plays a dame. I'm sure some female actors would fo it splendidly, but panto is very much about tradition.

Ah but we were supposed to guess she didn't mean "all theatre" and just meant "the theatre she likes which is plays"

But companies performing in Britain don't have to be British

Panto's meant to be silly, silly! 😁

YABU.
I love panto and it just wouldn't be the same without panto dames played by men.
#LeavePantoAlone

Ah, well, you said THEATRE is in a dire way, not DRAMA.

I would agree that the West End is crammed with musicals (and has been for 25 years) but there have been a lot of very good dramas in the last couple of years with very good roles for women. Till The Stars Come Down transferred from the National was one particularly female-heavy play but there were many others. Sarah Snook did a one-man Dorian Gray. Giant was 3M 3F.

The National, the Globe, the RSC, Chichester are larger venues with lots of women playing male roles. The National and Globe are both run by wine, the RSC has a female and a male director.

Again, if you look at smaller venues, such as Orange Tree Richmond, there stage almost exclusively drama and everything they do is sold out. The prices are also reasonable and often with names in the cast.

Well, I've run four different venues, in different parts of the country, and all of them did and are still doing very nicely thank you. In fact, many theatres are doing very well, particularly smaller venues, although despite tickets prices increasing most shows in the West End are selling very well.

Does the industry have problems? Yes. Is it in dire straits? Absolutely not.

Yes, I thought that would be unlikely. Foreign companies doing it shouldn't but it's harder to stop. As you said,,Russian companies are not round here much anyway, for obvious reasons...

I see what you mean but I don't think pantos were necessarily designed to exclude women though there are definitely sexist elements.

Traditionally they were designed as a kids' thing to some extent, so not only adult-targeted.

Roles like Sleeping Beauty & Cinderella did get to sing etc though parts fairly passive, and roles like fairy godmother were positive.

It's worth noting principal boy actresses like Vesta Tilley, Ellaline Terriss etc had notable female fanbases too, they weren't purely popular with leering men.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.theguardian.com/music/2010/may/13/cross-dressing-women-musical-theatre&ved=2ahUKEwiky7WPisuSAxWCnf0HHUAyL08QFnoFCIABEAE&usg=AOvVaw2YTiWGl72iIa5Ns5TB4W1i

British companies don't do that.

Probably because the music for The Nutcracker was written by a Russian composer and the dances choreographed by Petipa, a French/Russian, and first performed at the Mariinsky Theatre in St Petersburg.

And no, Russian companies aren't performing in the UK, for obvious reasons.

I don't disagree with someone doing a Chinese etc dance in the Nutcracker. It's yellowface I personally object to

So not British companies then. Who are far more enlightened.

@SpringTimeIsRingTime Your interpretation of the Victorian era and the history of theatre is all over the place.

Yes, and also the relevance of Edward Kynaston too, such an important time in the history of theatre and performance.

This controversial topic has been under discussion in ballet circles for many years. Some companies in the USA still perform the Arabian and Chinese dances in the Nutcracker that way (and there are a considerable number of versions), and since it is performed all over the world, no doubt international companies have their own versions. Yellowface is certainly not done by British companies. In fact the choreography, as well as the costumes and make-up, has been considerably changed in recent years. The music itself cannot be changed. It is Tchaikovsky - the classical music equivalent of Shakespeare.

The thing is though, a large number of ballet dancers are from different cultures, so if people don't like the idea of a white dancer performing the Chinese dance, shouldn't they also be objecting to a Japanese dancer performing as a Spanish gypsy?

Yes,,I didn't think drag style performances had become standard.

You mean...the first female actress in the 1600s?

Another interesting idea.

I wonder how many here have heard of Margaret Hughes, or know her story and place in this discussion of acting.