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Original poster

Time for Women with Talent to Take Back Older Female Roles in Pantos

516 replies

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 08/02/2026 15:31

Panto Dames have been a thing since 1806 when a certain Mr Simmons decided to play Mother Goose as a Witch (how original) rather than as a caring grandmother figure. Nowadays panto dames are mainly played by gay men in drag.

I think it's time for talented actresses to take back elder female roles from the tired tropes played by men since the Victorian era.

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9
inkymoose · 14/02/2026 17:42

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 14/02/2026 12:24

In your opinion.

I don’t think you’ve even had a strong argument to begin with. It’s entirely based on your complete lack of understanding of what a pantomime actually is.

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Confused
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HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 14/02/2026 12:24

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 14/02/2026 12:21

Your arguments are getting weaker by the post.

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In your opinion.

I don’t think you’ve even had a strong argument to begin with. It’s entirely based on your complete lack of understanding of what a pantomime actually is.

Original poster
SpringTimeIsRingTime · 14/02/2026 12:21

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 14/02/2026 08:38

Since when was a pantomime about high quality acting?
If don’t like pantomimes then don’t go and see them. Go and watch a play instead as it sounds like that’s the type of theatre production you’d prefer.

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Your arguments are getting weaker by the post.

OP posts:
HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 14/02/2026 08:38

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 13/02/2026 22:26

That doesn't mean that women should be excluded from playing Mother Goose or the Ugly Sisters. I can't wait until these roles are filled primarily by the many talented women out there who can act the pants off any mediocre man in drag.

Edited
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Since when was a pantomime about high quality acting?
If don’t like pantomimes then don’t go and see them. Go and watch a play instead as it sounds like that’s the type of theatre production you’d prefer.

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 23:26

Comefromaway · 13/02/2026 14:59

I will add

Great British Bake Off Musical - Pippa Cleary (she also wrote My Son's a Queer & Adrian Mole

Legally Blonde - Nell Benjamin (co-written with Lawrence O Keefe)

Kinky Boots - Cindy Lauper co-written with Harvey Fierstein)

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Thank you, I didn't know these were by women! It really is improving..

ShowMeTheSea · 13/02/2026 23:21

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 13/02/2026 22:26

That doesn't mean that women should be excluded from playing Mother Goose or the Ugly Sisters. I can't wait until these roles are filled primarily by the many talented women out there who can act the pants off any mediocre man in drag.

Edited
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Nah, it'd be crap if women started playing Mother Goose. Wouldn't be half as funny.

Original poster
SpringTimeIsRingTime · 13/02/2026 22:26

Comefromaway · 13/02/2026 14:59

I will add

Great British Bake Off Musical - Pippa Cleary (she also wrote My Son's a Queer & Adrian Mole

Legally Blonde - Nell Benjamin (co-written with Lawrence O Keefe)

Kinky Boots - Cindy Lauper co-written with Harvey Fierstein)

Show quote history

That doesn't mean that women should be excluded from playing Mother Goose or the Ugly Sisters. I can't wait until these roles are filled primarily by the many talented women out there who can act the pants off any mediocre man in drag.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringTimeIsRingTime · 13/02/2026 22:20

ObelixtheGaul · 12/02/2026 06:53

And trans women are women. NOT men dressed up as women. If you think trans women are men dressed as women, I think you might be the transphobic one.
We really do need to stop conflating drag with trans. Drag is a theatrical art form, in which men dress as women for comedic effect. The comedy is derived from this reversal.
It is far more transphobic to consider trans women as 'men in drag'.

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Trans women are men.
Only a man can be one.

They are men with a well-documented paraphilia that approximately 3% of males develop, usually from puberty which is when they discover they get "excited" when they put on their mummy's or their sister's knickers.
It progresses from there on.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 13/02/2026 14:59

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 03:08

This is as a good a place as any to say women's representation has improved a lot in hit musicals as far as writing goes. Look at hits of the last 10 years, many still running:
Waitress : words & music by Sara Bareilles
Hadestown : words & music by Anais Mitchell
Fun Home : words & music by Lisa Kron & Jeanine Tesori (Tesori also wrote
Shrek
Frozen : words & music by Kristen Anderson-Lopez (cowritten with Robert Lopez)
Six: words & music by Lucy Moss (cowritten with Toby Marlow)
Come From Away : words & music by Irene Sankoff (cowritten with David Hein)
Suffs : words & music by Shania Taub
Anastasia : Lynn Ahrens (lyrics only)
So women are well-represented in recent hits. This is a huge improvement from most of the history of musicals. Otoh there is still a long way to go overall.

Edited

I will add

Great British Bake Off Musical - Pippa Cleary (she also wrote My Son's a Queer & Adrian Mole

Legally Blonde - Nell Benjamin (co-written with Lawrence O Keefe)

Kinky Boots - Cindy Lauper co-written with Harvey Fierstein)

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 03:31

If Mitski writes her score for The Queen's Gambit as planned, I predict that could be another such hit.

https://www.thequeensgambitmusical.com/

THE QUEEN'S GAMBIT / A new musical. Coming soon.

https://www.thequeensgambitmusical.com

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 03:08

This is as a good a place as any to say women's representation has improved a lot in hit musicals as far as writing goes. Look at hits of the last 10 years, many still running:
Waitress : words & music by Sara Bareilles
Hadestown : words & music by Anais Mitchell
Fun Home : words & music by Lisa Kron & Jeanine Tesori (Tesori also wrote
Shrek
Frozen : words & music by Kristen Anderson-Lopez (cowritten with Robert Lopez)
Six: words & music by Lucy Moss (cowritten with Toby Marlow)
Come From Away : words & music by Irene Sankoff (cowritten with David Hein)
Suffs : words & music by Shania Taub
Anastasia : Lynn Ahrens (lyrics only)
So women are well-represented in recent hits. This is a huge improvement from most of the history of musicals. Otoh there is still a long way to go overall.

Carla786 · 13/02/2026 02:33

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 11/02/2026 23:41

No thanks.
The Principal Boy role was for the leering men in the audience.
That's regressive.

Young girls in the audience expect Prince Charming to be a handsome young man not someone like their mummy in a short tunic and knee-high boots.

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Usually principal boys in the days the were cast were younger women (as you yourself noted)

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 12/02/2026 19:32

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 12/02/2026 19:11

Are these women playing hideous parodies of men?
If not, your examples are not relevant.

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I thought your point was that you wanted more roles to be available for women? Therefore it’s highly relevant.

Original poster
SpringTimeIsRingTime · 12/02/2026 19:11

GreenIsTheColourOfMyHoliday · 08/02/2026 21:10

Cynthia Evro is currently playing all 23 (mostly male) parts in Dracula and played Jesus last year

There have been female Hamlets

Life of Pi tour had both a female and a male actor for the lead role

Shall we complain about them?

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Are these women playing hideous parodies of men?
If not, your examples are not relevant.

OP posts:
HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 12/02/2026 07:20

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 12/02/2026 07:12

Panto dames make me feel so sick. It’s why I can’t stand pantos. All the innuendos and ridiculous make up and outfits. Grim 🤮

It’s absolutely fine not to be a fan of a panto but the innuendo and ridiculous outfits and make up is the actual point of a pantomime!!

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 12/02/2026 07:12

Panto dames make me feel so sick. It’s why I can’t stand pantos. All the innuendos and ridiculous make up and outfits. Grim 🤮

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 12/02/2026 07:12

Comefromaway · 11/02/2026 23:19

My husband has also been the Dame’s boyfriend 3 years running so that’s becoming an interesting tradition!

we always sit in the circle so that can’t happen but Ds arranged for a shout out that made fun of Dh!

Haha if it were up to me we’d be hiding at the back! DH and DS have other ideas though 😂

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 12/02/2026 07:09

SpringTimeIsRingTime · 11/02/2026 23:41

No thanks.
The Principal Boy role was for the leering men in the audience.
That's regressive.

Young girls in the audience expect Prince Charming to be a handsome young man not someone like their mummy in a short tunic and knee-high boots.

Show quote history

Do they? You make so many sweeping assumptions about what you think people want.

You're completely ignoring the posts where people say they would like to see something different to you. Why don’t their views matter? Why are you so arrogant that you believe your opinion is the only one that matters?

ObelixtheGaul · 12/02/2026 06:53

Tankflop · 10/02/2026 20:01

How do you know they aren’t trans.

How does the audience know they aren’t trans.

That is so transphobic. Trans men are men

Show quote history

And trans women are women. NOT men dressed up as women. If you think trans women are men dressed as women, I think you might be the transphobic one.
We really do need to stop conflating drag with trans. Drag is a theatrical art form, in which men dress as women for comedic effect. The comedy is derived from this reversal.
It is far more transphobic to consider trans women as 'men in drag'.

Original poster
SpringTimeIsRingTime · 11/02/2026 23:41

ODFOx · 11/02/2026 22:58

No. Time for women with talent to take back the Principal Boy role.

No thanks.
The Principal Boy role was for the leering men in the audience.
That's regressive.

Young girls in the audience expect Prince Charming to be a handsome young man not someone like their mummy in a short tunic and knee-high boots.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 11/02/2026 23:19

My husband has also been the Dame’s boyfriend 3 years running so that’s becoming an interesting tradition!

we always sit in the circle so that can’t happen but Ds arranged for a shout out that made fun of Dh!

Comefromaway · 11/02/2026 23:16

And generally includes a bench & these days often the Ghostbusters theme.

ShowMeTheSea · 11/02/2026 23:00

Comefromaway · 11/02/2026 21:52

Often portrayed as a bit stupid, "it's behind you" where??? Doh!

we’ll have to do it again then, won’t we, wooooo!

I "heard" them say that as I read it 😁 especially the "woo" bit
I agree with the poster that said I don't think they have ever even been to a pantomime, or if they have they don't understand it.
That's not just the Dame that does that, it's a running gag usually involving most of the cast.

ODFOx · 11/02/2026 22:58

No. Time for women with talent to take back the Principal Boy role.