Teachers should have to follow the same rules

I don’t agree with banning skirts for pupils. If I was told not skirts as staff I would walk.

The only dress code rule at my school is no denim. What sort of school vets hair dye??

but the boys mostly have their trousers so low down that you can practically see all of their underwear.
Oh god I remember that one. 90s revival time! Doesn't seem to have caught on round here.

I'll never understand the British obsession with school uniform.
Most European countries don't have a school uniform.
There is no legislation covering the wearing of uniform in the UK, imo it should be scrapped as a school regulation.

I work in a non uniform school and it might surprise everyone but I’ve never seen a skirt that short on a student, we do however get the occasional high rise thong above their low rise jeans… but the boys mostly have their trousers so low down that you can practically see all of their underwear. They dress the same as I did their age in the early 2010s and it makes me laugh.
No we don’t stop them, yes we have some of the highest learning outcomes in our country.

I do wonder if it's time to ditch uniform altogether. The 6th formers dress so much more sensibly in their own clothes than the year 11s do in supposed uniform.

I can certainly see why they'd want to ditch skirts as a uniform option. So much quibbling about what's an acceptable length - and some are really so not acceptable round here. Teachers shouldn't be put in the position of having to point out to kids that their underwear is showing. And obviously no teacher would turn up in a skirt 5 sizes too small and rolled up to show their undies, so the rule doesn't need to apply to teachers.

There's also the fact that children have to be ready for whatever lesson comes their way. Some lessons involve movement, they need to be wearing something practical. Whereas the teachers know their own lesson plans and if they have anything physical planned.

That doesn’t address the double standard or explain why it’s ok for any adult to wear a skirt but not a teen

Surely it's not that difficult to work out.

In all my years working in schools I've never seen a single Teacher's knickers or arse cheeks. Not once. But when I worked in secondary schools many of the girls wore skirts rolled up so short that when they walked up the stairs you got a full view of gusset and arse cheeks and if you dared to suggest they roll their skirt down you'd be accused of being a "paedo" or "slut shaming" them. That's why some schools have decided it's ok for adult staff to wear skirts but not pupils.

If Teachers start walking around school in tiny skirts with their arses hanging out then publicly accusing the Head Teacher of being a "nonce" for noticing I imagine skirts will be banned for them too.

I have a lot of sympathy for this viewpoint.

However, I would also counter that a year 8 girl is not a small child any more, and there is absolutely no way surrounded by other year 8 girls and boys that they can be.

They are starting puberty, noticing the other sex, and they are likely to want to express it with clothing, at school more than anywhere else.

But also, it's fine to say, we don't want you to go around with your pants on show. Just - well - that can apply to everyone!

Mixed sex. Upskirting, probably. Should address the problem of upskirting realistically e.g. ban phones in school; have boys taught that girls' boundaries are to be respected - and these enforced. Also make sure that changing rooms and loos are strictly separate sex.

Wonder what happens if a kid injures themselves because their stupid tie gets caught in the machinery? (Drill press, lathe, circular saw, jigsaw, the possibilities are endless!)

I don't think either teachers or students should be heavily sexualised for school. A make up should be discreet rule for all parties might do.

I do, of course, accept that there are things that school children are not old enough to do that are fine for adults. (Sex, driving). But I also think that the general principle should be that rules should be for good reasons, and should be for everyone.

I would let a 13 year old wear some make up to school, if it made her happy. I accept there's a mid way, as I probably wouldn't let a 5 year old. But a 5 year old is less likely to want to and would make a mess trying.

Well by that reckoning my DS is being taught that wearing a tie is necessary to do wood work and metal work, while using equipment that his tie or sleeves could get caught in. That wearing a blazer for painting or clay work in art is sensible and that cooking in a suit is normal.

Exactly. I've worked in the food industry, I understand uniform for hygiene reasons (hat, hairnet, apron, short sleeves, for example,) I've also worked in a warehouse where I had to wear safety boots and if I went in the carpark I put on a hi-vis jacket. That place was roasting in the summer so we could wear t-shirts and shorts. Great! And shows more flexibility than most schools do towards the welfare of their pupils.

Uniforms are so outdated and unnecessary. And it is very hypocritical for adults to tell kids they have to dress a particular way in school, but not follow similar dress code themselves. Most teachers at local school dress in hoodies, shorts/leggings but kids have to be in trousers/skirts/dresses - no leggings allowed for them!

I disagree with you and that comment. Children don't have a choice regarding uniform, they don't "sign up for it". It's a ridiculous and backward tradition that's being pushed by schools purely for the power and control it gives them over children.

Of course kids need to go to school, and 99% of schools require a uniform, so don't pretend they agree to it. It's as stupid as the comment about teachers that you criticise.

OK, how about the 14 year swaps and instead of being there for 32.5 hours a week, they're there for 37+? And if they don't do the work or meet the dress codes, they aren't sent home or given detention, they lose the ability to buy food or keep a roof over their families' heads and reduced prospects of getting another role to do it instead?

Enough people end up sustaining workplace injuries because they think the rules shouldn't have to apply to them. Unfortunately, FAFO post 16 can be permanently disabling or life ending - better that they learn you have to follow rules you don't particularly like before they're deciding that it's only a couple of dots of weld, no need for a mask or protective footwear or they'd obviously never get 2.5t of stuff dropped on their foot and converse are so much more comfortable than steelies.

If the argument for school uniform is that it prepares students for the future then I think teachers have to follow the same rules, to show that the uniform actually prepares them for “the future” but we can all agree that that won’t happen any time soon. As a PP said then it’s hypocrisy for a teacher with brightly coloured hair to punish a student for the same.
I am a teacher in a non-uniform country, we have year 7s show up in full glam make up everyday and score the best on standardised tests. There are girls that, as true to teenage fashion, have bra straps on show and our boys still score among the highest in terms of reading comprehension. Boys show up with hair down to their bum and we don’t see them being bullied for it. But for the most part the kids just wear sports wear or jeans and a hoodie.
As teachers we model the behaviour and appearance we’d like to see from the students.

And I've just looked up the uniform policy of the nearest secondary school to me (DS is 18 months, I've got a while yet.) it's ties, blazers, white shirt (boys) or blouse (girls, what the fuck is the difference?) and plain black everything else except for the skirts. Coats aren't allowed in the school (where do they go then?) Oh, and of course it all comes from a special uniform shop. That'll be fun for me on one income.

Meanwhile my school uniform was a white polo neck or shirt, black jumper, black trousers or skirt, you could get those anywhere. Socks were supposed to be black or white but no one was checking (there were stripy socks around, I remember seeing a girl with black and turquoise and I wore black and pink.) Bags and coats could be anything, shoes were black, but they weren't allowed to be super high heels. In Year 11 I wore my skate shoes! And we were allowed to wear make up and nail polish, dye our hair and most kids wore some jewellery without too much trouble. (This was the 2000s.)

Well, perhaps part of that greater respect for education is due to the fact that the schools are not imposing petty rules about what the children wear.🤔

Don’t be fucking ridiculous 🙄

School uniform isn’t practical though. Shirt, tie, blazer in what way is that practical for practical science classes, home economics, wood work/technical subjects? I’ve never in my life thought “I’m going to do some painting, let me put on a shirt and tie”. And I can’t think of a time when I’ve donned a blazer to my singing lesson.

If uniform was practical I’d see the argument but it isn’t. Making kids carry outdoor coats because their blazer needs to be seen without giving them somewhere to put them. Making them wear full uniform in stifling heat - when teachers can dress for the weather. Treating comfort as something to be granted, gifted or earned is ridiculous. So yes I think if teachers can dress for the weather, and the activity they’re teaching children should similarly be allowed the same. That doesn’t mean abandoning uniform, but having choice eg a polo shirt option, a place to hang up heavy winter coats, the option to wear boots in winter, a skirt option for summer.

I am educated to masters level and beyond and my background is in healthcare. Uniforms are worn for reasons of infection control, identification of staff groups and roles and safety reasons. It absolutely does matter how people present themselves; we have rules for good reasons and I would enforce them generally. Thinking critically, in my workplace, appropriately and safely dressed staff definitely have the ability to improve outcomes.
The reality is that how you dress sometimes does influence who you are, or what you achieve. I would absolutely agree that some school uniform policies are ridiculous and harmful. The example that you give about shorts through; another way of looking at it is that we sometimes do have to comply with rules as part of a bigger picture. That can be a good lesson for children to learn too.

I think it depends what the rule is and the reasons behind it. I disagree that parents who question anything to do with uniform or rules, show a lack of maturity or thinking. As a parent I'm definitely on the stricter side and expect DS to follow rules on uniform etc, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't question things. If a school uniform consists of trousers for girls, fine. If you don't want your daughter to wear trousers or if she doesn't want to wear them, that isn't the school for her. However if a school suddenly introduces this as a rule, that's different. I don't wear trousers or jeans and never have done, because frankly I have a big-arse and big hips. I was very self-conscious in my teens and would have hated to have to wear something that made me look awful. I don't think asking adults/teachers to consider how they would feel if they were suddenly asked to dress in a way that made them feel uncomfortable or self-conscious, shows a lack of thinking - quite the opposite in fact. Likewise my son's previous school had a rule of blazers and ties had to be worn every day, even in hot temperatures - fine. We knew this when we signed up for the school. The reasoning was that they needed to get used to looking smart and professional in all weathers. What I didn't expect was for the male teachers (who presumably also needed to look smart and professional ) to be ditching their ties and jackets at the first sign of hot weather because 'it was way too hot to wear them'. Too hot for the adults but not for the pupils?