To think that no racist ever admits they are a racist

White boys now least likely to go to Uni. But you were very much ok with it when black/brown students (with much better qualifications) were subsiding the local students and their cheap long term loans by paying fees almost 3 times higher and then being kicked out of the country post graduation.

You were quite ok with it when all min. Wages were the domain of black of brown people.

It is only NOW to the fuckery of the economic and foreign policies of various governments, that things are now hitting home for you. It is NOW that in reality your precious white boy might have to apply to jobs that you see beneath you - now ONLY NOW, are you upset.

I am not even going to get started on Britain’s colonial history.

It is only because it is now affecting you and your DS’s that you are bothered. Prior to that, you were quite happy to sit in your entitlement.

I heard a commentator on the radio (sorry can’t remember his name) who described racism/unconscious bias like this.

ask someone if they are a liar they will say no of course not. Ask them if they’re always honest in all circumstances and the answer is… well, no, not always.

He explained if you swap racism for lying/dishonesty in this example, it opens a more nuanced discourse about attitudes/bias without a loaded label which nobody wants to admit to.

when racism is defined by an all or nothing (racist/not racist) label, it makes it very difficult to tackle more subtle inequalities such as bias during recruitment, legal sentencing etc.

I know people who are overt racist and happy with their views. I generally avoid and those I cant avoid steer conversation away, I will never convince them.

My DMs husband, in his 80s now, used to be open about voting NF! I imagine hes a reform now.

The much younger ones in their 20s-40s use The great Reset and Replacement theories as their 'proof' that we are being invaded by design and as such we should be 'rising up' or we will become the 3rd world ourselves.

I tend to roll eyes and avoid. Any discussion leads to them saying that I'm a traitor to my country! 🤔

You shouldn't believe all the dogma about 'race privilige' it's just a luxury belief by the overspoilt white middle classes.

White boys are now least likely to go to University, how does that fit your world view?

Life expectancy of mainly white area -Hull compared to mainly asian area Dagenham

• Kingston upon Hull (2022-24): Approximately 75.5 years for men and 80.4 years for women. Earlier data (2020-22) listed Hull as having one of the lowest male life expectancies in England at 75.0 years.
• Barking and Dagenham (2021-23): Approximately 77.3 years for men and 81.0 years for women.

If they say similar things to all meat-eaters, non-free-range farmers, etc,, then they are a bit extreme but not racist.

If they reserve them for non-white Muslims, then they are racist.

The meaning of the term has changed hugely over my lifetime (early 60s). When someone asks me if I'm a feminist, for eg, I always ask them what they mean by that term. Then, based on what they say, I respond thoughtfully.

I consider myself a strong feminist - just to be clear - and always have since my late teens. But people mean different things by 'feminist'. An incel-type man will mean something different from a professional woman, for example. And I do think that contemporary feminism has thrown up some problems which actually don't help women.

Same with racism. I thought I knew what that meant until about 10 years ago. Actual racism makes me furious and I've actively fought it over my career.

But I wouldn't 'take the knee', for example. And I don't accept the blame for the European colonial past either. To some, that makes me a racist.

I have a lovely Asian DIL and am delighted to have her in the family.

I don't think going looking for racism helps anyone. When poor Benedict Cumberbatch, at an award ceremony, got practically lynched for using the 'wrong' term (coloured actors) instead of 'actors of colour' a few years ago, I thought that was pathetic and only serves to inflame the real racists.

I think it's ok to criticise tenets of other cultural beliefs / religions and often that's considered racism. It's absolutely absurd to think skin colour is indicative of worth.

Racists are blissfully happy being racist.

But they don’t want to be called racist.

It’s weird and you are not wrong to note this.

How many young men in the UK had even HEARD of Critical Race Theory, at least until the Trumpsters and their British fanboys started bandying the phrase around?

No, I'm good with my interpretation thanks.

Your accusation was very clearly not made in good faith. It was evident that even you did not actually consider that I had said something racist or far right. So no, I didn't reflect on it.

If I had believed for a moment that you had actually meant what you said, then obviously, I would have reflected on your comments. Because I would actually care enough to want to understand and learn.

Anyway I understand from your posts that you aren't interested in other people's perspectives and that you are so convinced of your own rightness that you don't ever feel that it's necessary to consider whether you might need to reflect or learn - if someone criticises your views, then you dismiss them as bonkers without a second thought. So there is probably little point in us continuing the conversation. I have my views and you have yours.

Usually such deep reflection reveals that the person accusing someone of some ism is some brain washed useful idiot living in their little ivory tower.

I often wonder whether the useful idiots stop to deeply reflect on why they feel so compelled to use magical words to cut down reasonable needed debate and to consider that others might be differently affected by some of the issues they are shouting down

Well that’s good. Sometimes I do think am I being racist? So if I think that it means I’m not? That’s reassuring 😅

Or alternatively, people get bored of everything they say that doesn’t accord with the doctrine of the church of woke being seen as bigotry, no matter how much sense it makes, That boredom turns to anger when the useful idiots try and use whatever ism as a magical word to shut down much needed debate

I think a lot of them dont think they are racist because they think racism is about yelling abuse and beating people up
Their everyday racism doesnt feel to them like racism and they get very angry when you point out examples of their bigotry.

Did you go away and reflect, or did you dismiss my accusation as inaccurate?

I'm sure you think you're being very clever here, but it isn't really working for you.

If you had said that you had been accused of racist or far right views, and that you had gone away and really reflected deeply on why someone might accuse you of that, and that after much soul-searching and research, you still didn't believe that this was the case, then I might have some sympathy with your position. But you have made it clear that you never take the time to reflect, you just write the other person off as bonkers without actually bothering to engage with why they might have found your comments racist or whatever.

That tells me everything I need to know about you. There is no open-mindedness or humility. No willingness to reflect and learn. No interest in understanding.

"If you are genuinely left wing and liberal, then you won't find yourself expressing opinions that others might describe as far right."

In that case I assert you are a committed far right racist, and hope you will go and reconsider your abhorrent views before returning to apologise.

You see it does happen.

If you are genuinely left wing and liberal, then you won't find yourself expressing opinions that others might describe as far right. If you are being told by other people that you do sound like you have far right views, then perhaps you aren't quite as liberal and left leaning as you think you are.

You clearly aren't the type that is prone to reflect on your own words and how they might come across, so I am well aware that you won't take this on board.

I know a number of left leaning people who have serious concerns about immigration and/or integration. They manage to express those concerns without sounding remotely racist or right wing. So it is possible. But if things are said in a racist manner, then people will inevitably draw their own conclusions from that.

You hold this thought process in relation to slavery and genocide?

Calling racism a normal life interaction is wild.

No it doesn't make me reflect on my words. It makes me assume the person I'm talking to is bonkers.

"I don't know why you think being a lefty voting, liberal remainer type might make you immune from racism? "

I'm sure it doesn't, but you might expect it to make you immune to being a Nazi or fascist.

One question. Is it racist to believe that it's shameful that mosques have a main entrance for men and a sister's entrance (in my observation) round the back for women? Is it racist to think that women being expected to cover everything except their eyes in public should be discouraged?

This is so true. Having grown up in the 80s & 90s i've gone through so many generations of awareness of various prejudices around race and sexuality, etc. It's a constant evolution, but some people just don't wish to change. They grew up calling the corner shop the "P" shop, it's "not meant in a bad way" so they don't like being told it's no longer acceptable.

So if it's men that are a problem and a threat in general what difference does it make what country they are from?

Are you trying to do the whole “British men are just as much of a threat to women and children, so what difference does a stream of even more men who pose a threat to women and children being allowed into the country make”? Is that your logic?

You think British women and children are fair game to be victims of crime committed by illegal immigrant men, just because British men pose a similar risk? We can at least assess and try to minimise the risk posed by British men to women and children as we know their identities, prior convictions, we can request details of prior convictions to be made available to us under specific laws, we have the Sex Offenders Register, DBS checks etc. We can place limitations on what these men can and cannot do.

We have none of this for the men coming into the country on small boats.

Do you understand the difference and the increased risk that poses to women and children? I imagine you do. You just don’t care, then. Is that it?

The data from small boat crossings is as follows:

Adult men - 75% - 76%
Women - 7% - 12%
Children - 12% - 16%

And the figure for children isn’t even accurate and in reality is much lower, due to the number of adult men presenting themselves to authorities as children.

People who are always going on about 'illegal immigrants' should be saying 'male immigrants' if that's the thing that makes them so unpalatable.

Why, though. Given that the overwhelming number of illegal immigrants coming to the UK via Calais are male, I’m not sure people do have to be this specific.

In all the threads I’ve read on this subject, all the debates I’ve listened to, I’ve never read or heard one person take issue with asylum seekers who are women and children (actual children, not men pretending to be children). Not one.

It is disgraceful to try and brush off these concerns as racism.

I think a lot of people dont think that they are! They have a fixed idea about what constitutes racism (or any other prejudice) and think that their view doesn't fit into that, or they 'have a black friend', therefore they are not racist.