To think that no racist ever admits they are a racist

I don't believe that racism is absent from the UK (or will ever be from any country) but relatively it's one of the least racist countries in the world.

Warning some may find this upsetting. A racist advert for a Chinese washing powder.

@Mumsnet- this is shown by way of an example of racism in other countries and NOT my own views. I recognise that some posters may find it offensive and if it is reported or you deem it offensive then I fully understand why it has been deleted.

@MyNextDoorNeighbourVotesReform

My maternal family are Romani. We are gypsies. We don't give a fuck about being called gypsies. The people that do not want to be called gypsies are Irish Travellers
We do not want to be confused because 'we' believe we are cleaner, treat our animals better, get a bad name because of them thieves etc, etc and vice versa
Ironically, racism. And very overt with it on both sides
But you don't need to clutch your pearls for us. Why do you think Fury calls himself a gypsy?
It's a thing that the middle classes have invented to be cross of on 'our' behalf

That's not evidence of a race bias. There will be religious or cultural reasons influencing marriage choices, people mixing largely with people from their own community meaning they mainly meet potential partners within their own community, then most people want to marry someone with similar views and attitudes and culture to them so are more likely to marry someone from their own background. You'd expect people to marry more within their own cultural background, even if there were no racism.

But yes, racism will be the reason for some of those choices, but not others.

I read an interesting book, with different chapters by different Muslim women, and it was a real eye opener about racism from South Asians to Black Muslims and from Black people with heritage from certain countries in Africa towards black people with heritage from other countries in Africa.

Racism is a universal.

I think a lot of people have unconscious race bias. You just have to look at who people choose to marry. If no one had any bias the number of people marring someone from different race would be representative of the distribution in the country. But it isn't people are far more likely to marry someone from their own race - that applies across pretty much all race groups.

Agreed - I have been to JP several times and have experienced racism. They are quite open with it and dare I say, proud?!

But I've experienced it here in the UK too! From Indian, Chinese and (gasp) black people (yes, it happens, don't BS me that it doesn't) My DH is not white and his family wouldn't have anything to do with me and most of the reason was my race. I'm sure many, many other people can say the same.

Very naïve to think only white people can be racist.

Everyone is a bit racist IMO.

Yeah I do understand that.

My parents would say I’m not racist because as you know, I’m friends with (token African lady in the town) but … and then go on to say the most vile things.

Yeah, some very good points there. It is really difficult.

That would be none then, really, or very few. The numbers coming into the country have put a strain on housing, water, sewage, transport, waste collection, health service, schools, the welfare bill and our natural environment.

You wouldn't be able to go and settle in Australia unless you had specific skills that they needed.

Something else I've noticed, is that people can be very quick to believe or assume other people are saying they're racist, even when they've said no such thing.
On many threads I've made a comment and been turned on by posters saying "You 'lefties' think that everyone who doesn't agree with you are racists" and so forth, when there has been nothing in what I've actually written to suggest any such thing.

Yet still people read a left leaning or anti racism comment and reframe it as personal attack. Which they then use to prop up their argument that 'lefties' are going round accusing people of racism all the time.
Point being, if people want a 'discussion' there's responsibility on both sides to leave bias at the door and focus on what other people are actually saying rather than write their words for them based on stereotypes and dislike of 'the left'.

I do think cultural difference is often more divisive than skin colour.

It wasn't "cultural difference" that got my friend of Indian heritage beaten up a few years ago. He's from the third generation of his family that is UK born and educated and more steeped in British culture than I am.

I'm pretty sure that he was attacked for having brown skin, as evidenced by the fact that the scum who broke a couple of his ribs and kicked him in the face called him a "fucking P-word" and to "fuck off home".

Spot on.

My only concern about illegal immigrants is that their illegal status makes them more likely to be exploited.

The problem with that is, if we take asylum at its purest intent, its aim is to protect the vulnerable, not gather people into the country who are going to be useful.
Not to say people who come here seeking asylum are not going to be useful, many start new lives and make valuable contributions. However, depending on what they're fleeing, you will have people who are victims of violence and torture, women who have been raped, seen their children die, people who have disabilities, trauma and other MH problems due to their history. Realistically it may be a long time, if ever, before they are able to work and they will need a lot of services along the way.
A blanket work requirement would exclude these people, who arguably need asylum the most. Which some people might say, well, that's a shame, but not our problem. Which is a different line on immigration altogether, as if we're only going to admit the robust, healthy, work ready, useful people, that's not offering asylum, it's something completely different.
And people don't like that either, because they claim to be frightened of 'fighting fit' young men.

I don't know. Possibly. I really just want whoever wants to live here to be able to, as long as there are enough public services to support the extra people. Same as if I wanted to live in another country.

I think they should work and not be able to get benefits until they've paid a certain amount of NI etc. and obviously I think ideally they shouldn't let in people convicted of certain crimes.

So what the research really tells us is that white people tend to be blissfully unaware of racism or that black people are imagining it.

I know which of those options I think is most likely!

Not forgetting most were women and children as the men of fighting age actually generally stayed

i do think asylum should be temporary and reviewed. Eg is someone claimed asylum claiming they were gay, then later had relationships with opposite sex people they should be deported as the basis on which they claimed asylum is no longer relevant etc

As far as I am aware, the Ukraine refugee scheme only offered temporary sanctuary on time-limited visas, with the expectation that most refugees would return home when safe to do so - or at least that was how the scheme was presented to the British public.

Ukrainians needed a sponsor based in the UK, proof of ID/passport/biometric data and the majority of refugees were women and children, elderly men and families. The time-limited visas were not designed to offer permanent residence in the UK and time spent under the scheme does not count towards indefinite leave to remain. I think I remember reading last year that over 90,000 Ukrainians had already left the UK.

Is that the sort of scheme you would like to offer other refugees and asylum seekers across the board, i.e. proof of ID required, sponsorship and temporary sanctuary? Do you think Syrian refugees, for example, should return to Syria in due course?

You are absolutely right that the percentage of white people stating that there is "a great deal of racism" in the Uk is much lower than say black or brown people. The survey showed that 9 out of 10 black people believe that there is a great deal of racism in the UK.

Sorry I didn't explain the stats very clearly- 1st is least racist and 100th is most racist.

Here is the link to the survey which shows the methodology which it freely admits is difficult to measure.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-racist-countries

Firstly, "Actual racism is less prevalent than assumed" is not a question, is it? Its an opinion stated as though it were fact. So serves as a poor example to prove your point.
Secondly I don't think the study you cited is particularly helpful, because there's no definition of what constitutes 'a great deal' of racism.
For example, I consider surveys findings amongst people from minority ethnic backgrounds that 70% have experienced racism, 33% have been victims of racially motivated assault and 75% of WOC have been discriminated against at work as indicative of 'a great deal' of racism. You may not.

Yes, I couldn't agree more! 💯

Its also not an objective measure of racism. Its a measure of perception, but without knowing what that perception is based on - personal experience of racism, or reading/ watching material on racism, or something else - we can't say how far it reflects actual incidents of racism. Perceptions that there is a great deal of racism may, for example, increase after something like the George Lloyd murder, even though that is a USA issue. It may have made people in the UK think and feel that there is more racism, even though actually incidents of racism have not increased in the UK.

Its a useful measure to build a picture of the UK and racism, and its useful to track that measure over time ( or countries) but its not an objective measure or actual racism as such, but a subjective perception.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the stats by ethnicity.

E.g. 37% of people in the UK believe that there is a great deal of racism. But what percentage of white people believe that vs what percentage of black or brown people?

Yes but you’ll also have more tax revenue, and more skill capacity, and less strain on population figures. All western countries are wanting more people born not fewer, including the right-especially the right. The only reason for the racism is to set people against each other, so they ignore the people storing up all the money.