My ds keep shaming me

My kids never called anyone any names ever. I don’t understand why they’d turn on their mum.

Where have we gone wrong? How do we fix this? We have done time outs and explained this language and behaviour isn't acceptable.

Perhaps OP has tried TIME OUTS and explaining that it’s unacceptable language and behaviour?

They have heard this language somewhere. Find out where.
How does your husband react when they talk to you like that? And do they speak to him like that? You need a united front and consistency- pick them up on it every single time. I know my DH would not have tolerated my DC speaking to me like that.
I would tell them we do not talk like that to anyone, ever, and take them to their room where they stay until they can be polite.Or naughty step.
Then no screens at all until you’ve worked out how they are hearing this stuff.

Does your husband react to them disrespecting you this way?
Because I know it's old fashioned but my DH would always go mad at my boys if their behaviour tipped over into disrespect for their mother. Men shouting can be scarier than women shouting.
It was very rarely needed and we've raised two very lovely young adult men who have absolute respect for everyone, including women.

Honestly you've had good advice here about consequences but a good old fashioned bollocking is needed..."cross voice" won't cut it, you need to make them jump!

And I can't help but wonder (and you don't seem to have answered) how your husband treats you?

Even if it upsets you you need to brush it off

“I might be the fattest mum in the world but I am still in charge of your snack box/tv”

“how long do you think you would last in the big grown up world hitting if you don’t get your own way”

“every naughty behaviour adds another 30 minutes onto tv ban and yes this will carry over so think very carefully is expressing yourself this way worth the consequence”

and get dad involved
he needs to channel the male parenting role model and they need to know you stand together

Where on earth are they getting this from? This is a bizarre way for two young children to behave!

I would also calmly tell them that they do not get snacks if they can’t ask nicely and walk away. Something I do with my daughter who is 4 is refuse to get into a negotiation. If she asks and I say no and she asks again I tell her “I have already said no. Please don’t ask again”. And if she cries/has a tantrum then she has a tantrum.

Also when they do ask nicely / accept a no give them lots of praise. They are doing this for the reaction.

Please don’t hit them. I’m in Scotland where that is actually illegal (rightly so in my opinion).

You introduce sanctions until the behaviours stops. for example, no TV for the rest of the day if they call you fat and if they do it again the next day then no TV for the next 2 days. Play dates, treats, whatever it is that they like. Honestly you have to nip this in the bud now and show them that you are in charge otherwise you will have no chance when they are teenagers. Make sure you explain clearly why their behaviour is unacceptable and make sure you follow through with the punishment.

I agree with this.

And skinny or "ugly" too.

I'm tired of body-shaming, in either direction, being the last bastion of acceptable discrimination. You see it on these threads all the time, and, particularly the fat-shamers, are so haughty about it, as if being disapproving somehow shows them in a good light.

It's just discrimination and judging people for something superficial in the way that that being racist or sexist is.

They are little op. They need to be taught now while they are still forming their attitudes that it isn't acceptable to judge people for superficial things, or to hit out in anger with abusive comments. The only way is consequences and if they aren't working, you need bigger ones.

Have I slipped into a parallel universe here? The advocacy for smacking is shocking. No they don’t learn that if you hit you get hit back. That completely ignores the massive physical and power difference between adults and children. What they learn is that their parent cannot be trusted not to physically hurt them. Child development 101 is don’t hit your kids ever.

I would look at what they’re watching and manage that a bit more firmly. Do they have access to YouTube? Stick to CBeebies and remove access to programmes with physical violence (even in a fun context for a while).

In the moment I would either simply step away and manage my own feelings followed by a conversation later or if I felt able to have the conversation right away I would get down on their level and say ‘I cannot allow you to hit me. We do not hit.’ Then I would repeat this at bedtime every night ‘do you remember what happened this afternoon? You hit me. I will not allow you to hit me. That hurts. It is wrong. We do not hit.’

As for the ‘fat’ language again I would either walk away or say ‘we do not talk about other people’s bodies.’ They may laugh or seem to ignore you but again go over it with them later in a quiet moment. Read some books with them about bodies that include exploring different body shapes.

Then I’d sit down as a family and talk together about what are the golden rules of this house and write them down somewhere everyone can see. This is something children do in nursery and reception and is very effective with this age group. It gives them a stake in the rules.

So golden rules need to be simple and few but they need to be something everyone sticks to.
e.g. We use kind hands.
We say please.
We use kind words.
We don’t talk about other people’s bodies.

Then in terms of consequences it’s don’t engage with the behaviour in the moment or simply restate the golden rule then return to it later and have a conversation where you remind them firmly that we don’t do this. I know it might not sound like much but if you give it a try you might be surprised.

I think this phase is normal for many children same as them saying they hate you etc. They are testing the power of words and reactions. I dontt make a dramtic response. I reiterate that we dont make personal comments about each other in our family. Same as saying that a stranger on the street is fat/ smelly/ missing a leg etc. It passes and then they do something else more embarrassing. I wouldn't give drama to something that is meant to create drama. I often reply sorry to hear you feel that way. You know the consequence of saying x. So no more TV today. If he says sorry sorry I won't do it anymore. I say great but the consequence still stands. Even when theres a masterclass in negotiation. Consequence still stands. He respects that boundary. I dont need to shout or make draconian punishments.

@AnneLovesGilbert they are four and five, at least one is definitely in school and the other is either also at school or preschool or some description.

We can’t control everything and unfortunately they will hear things that are unkind, unpleasant.

No, they learn that people who say they love you also physically hurt you.

I have never ever hit my children. Therefore I can explain that I love them and would never hurt them. 'We don't ever hurt people we love. In our house no one is afraid of being physically hurt and in our house we have kind hands. I would never ever hit or hurt you so you must not ever ever hit or hurt anyone else.'

I also can't believe people are advising to hit back, how the hell do you teach a small child that hitting is wrong while hitting them??

We had something similar with DS3 when he was about 5/6 yrs old, DH was in another room but heard him, DS actually called me a stupid cow😮I turned and looked at him in stunned astonishment but before I could even reply, Dh flew into the room and roared at him "What did you just say to your Mum". DH never raises his voice as he is a very easy going calm person but he was so shocked. It was followed by telling him he could not believe he had said something so nasty and rude and to get out of the room as neither DH or I wanted to be in the same room as someone who said such horrible things. He was gently shoved out to the hall - he was now the shocked one!!
Any time he tried to return to the kitchen he was told to leave and we completely ignored him while telling him we were not ready to talk to him or be in the same room as him after being so rude and mean.
He never did it again and he ended up crying and coming to me for a hug and wailing that he was sorry and I'm not a cow - never mentioned the stupid bit though😂
You do need to get very mad though and use a very very harsh tone of voice.

This! Do not engage.

I also personally removed power from the word. The first time my child used the fat word - Yes, I am fat, just as you are thin. 🤷🏽‍♀️

After that, ignore. Give attention to, praise and reward the positive behaviour.

If they’re not hearing or seeing behaviour like this at home what the hell are you letting them watch that they think it’s acceptable? I’d start by banning the tv and keeping it off while you find strategies to make them behave in a more acceptable way.

Your framing is quite telling. They’re not “shaming” you. They’re poorly disciplined and being fucking horrible. Stop making it about how you feel and start dealing with their violence. Do they carry on like this at school?

We took similar action - my DS was 7 and he lost all tech and TV for 48 hours and then a full 7 days. It was enough thereafter to threaten the loss of it all for him to stop and apologise.

You deprive them of the things they love most - if they love their lego, or thomas the tank engine set etc, CBeebies, you tell them it will be taken away for 48 hours. And you do it. If they repeat offend, it is withdrawn for 72 hours and you escalate. You state that naughty boys do not go to birthday parties or soft play. But you should not be doing it alone - your DH needs to come down on them like a tonne of bricks. It is actually acceptable to occasionally raise your voice at your children and tell them that their behaviour is bloody disgusting and will not be tolerated. And your husband needs to united with you in everything you do.

And as others suggest - they are learning it from somewhere. Given their ages - and assuming you are not in an abusive relationship with DH is talking to you like this - I would speak to school and find out who their friends are and whether one of them is playing with a child that behaves/talks like this. Explain the issues you are having at home as they can support you in nipping this behaviour in the bud.

My kids did this, to be fair I was fat then I got unwell and dropped to 6 stone, and they still called me fat which baffled me. In the end I reliezed kids are just horrible, I took all their stuff and refused to give it back for a month till their behaviour changed.

I agree with @Ketryne

We haven’t had ‘fat’ (and I wouldn’t be so sure it’s coming from something that can be blamed on the OP; they do hear all sorts at school) but lots of smelly, poo poo, bum, wee. I ignore it. It’s childish and annoying but five year olds are, unsurprisingly!

And if some of this is about treats and access to treats which they want, I would not be afraid to use food as part of the consequence. Don't buy ANY treats for a week - we usually don't need them. Eat a carrot or something instead. What's their favourite tea? We're not having that this week. I mean, we have to be careful about food and sanctions for lots of reasons but if its a language they understand its quite effective. No cake for you because. No treats. No toys at the shops. No day out. No screen time. No playdate.
I will NEVER withhold a teddy or friend but other things ..

I have to say that this is potentially a good way to go if the consequences aren’t working.
Explain briefly why you’re leaving and then grey rock until they apologise and appear sorry.

You’re the parent. You’re in charge. My sons wouldn’t have dreamed of speaking to me like that when they were little. Unacceptable. They need to be told, and quick.

I might get flamed for this, but I'd stop explaining and start being stern now. I absolutely would not keep explaining why it's not nice and wrong, they know.
No flaming from me! Flaming should have started the first time they did it.

Where have they picked this up from? Have they heard you discussing with DP being overweight? Is your DP kind to you ?

I would lose my shit and send them to their rooms, each and every time they speak like this.

DP needs to also do the same.

They aren't 'shaming' you (I don't even really understand what this means) - they are being absolutely bloody rude.

How do you respond when they say this?