My ds keep shaming me

This kind of behaviour is beyond rude and extremely manipulative. These boys need to learn beyond a shadow of a doubt their behaviour is absolutely unacceptable. Otherwise, they’ll go through life causing a lot of hurt to a lot of people. My ds 11 was recently rude to me when I asked him to help by tidying away his lego. He didn’t call me names but sighed dramatically and rolled his eyes. When I called him out he said, “Well I’ve just sat down.” What I wanted to say was:
“That was extremely rude. These are your toys and your responsibility to put away. There will be no TV until you’ve put them away.”
Tired, shocked me bellowed,
”Are you actually kidding? Would you like it if I made a mess and then expected you to clean it up? Shall I go into your room and empty my makeup all over your bed and see how you’d feel if I expected you to clean it away? I am not a slave. Now tidy away YOUR toys. No TV until it’s done.”
I also said I expected an apology. He did tidy away his toys and apologise. We talked again at this point how we all have a responsibility to help out, fairness etc. I apologised for shouting. Not perfect, but who is? It is our responsibility as parents though to try our best to teach accountability, equality, empathy, compassion…. So stand firm OP and do not accept that terrible behaviour from your boys! It’s hard but you’ve got this!! X

thats not looked on as acceptable today

Who have they learnt this behaviour from? Mine would never call someone fat or any other name. They dont hear me or any other adult family member calling others nasty names. And have been taught not to.
You need to go super strict and also maybe gets some books that are for kids and deal with bullying. Because if they are doing that to you then they will almost certainly be bully's in school.

That's 5 mothers that would smack just in the first 2 pages
good grief

The problem is that they will speak to you like this and get away with it, but they will struggle to keep friends at school if they don’t know how to speak to people. They will run into trouble with teachers and dinner ladies etc and get a name for themselves as horrible children. It’s not limiting or restricting to have children able to behave in a way that allows them to fit into society. Once you’ve got a name as a nasty piece of work at school, it’s hard to shake off, especially if the other children tell their parents, thats a hard amount of judging to shake off for a little kid.
You are better being the bad guy now and bringing out the big guns and having a bit of a rant and putting their favourite toys in a bin bag in the shed.

Crikey, whatever happened to a good old ‘bit of a telling off’?

For this behaviour I don’t think it’s extreme or unhinged at all. I’m a gentle parent, in the traditional sense not the current perception, and often get called strict or harsh for giving my child consequences by permissive parents who think it’s ’just normal kid stuff’.

To me using offensive language and violence is NOT normal kid stuff.

I do agree with this. This awful behaviour from the OP's children needs reining in, (wherever they're getting it from) but smacking is not the answer. As you say, it's disgusting behaviour. Physically assaulting a small child less than half your size who is too young to know right from wrong is despicable behaviour, and should be treated the same as if an adult hit another adult. There should be a charge of assault against that person.

If you have to resort to physically assaulting your own CHILD, you have failed as a parent.

Absolutely no YouTube! Adverts, pop ups, and just a few clicks they can end up watching MASSIVELY inappropriate stuff!!

A friend of mine used to let her DS just watch what he liked on YouTube, and she used those exact same words "he is just watching XYZ". er... no he wasn't! I showed her how easy it was to get onto something awful. Violence. Nudity etc...

I'd also go back to basics with the snacks and only have fruit/breadsticks. If they've been really good all week and no potty mouth words and mean behaviour then perhaps they can walk to the shop with you and choose a small snack.

4 and 5 is not 'school age children,' they are barely past toddlers - they are infants - and there is no way they are using these words because other other 4-5 year olds in the class have used them. This age child would not speak like this..

They have heard it either from older children - or an adult. Why is it so out of the realms of belief that it could be their father they have heard it from? No-one is saying the OP is in an abusive relationship, but the OP's husband may have used these slurs against someone else, and the 2 children have picked it up.

That was an effective message to curtail brattish behaviour.
Sadly its no longer viable and doesnt it show 😡

I used to give a ‘time out’ and sit on the bottom step of the stairs. Only for 5 mins and explain why they needed time to sit and think about what and why it had happened. If they did it again the same thing, but the length of time increased each time.

being unkind or rude just wasn’t tolerated.

Well we can't gauge your full parenting from a single post, that's true. But honestly, those highlighted bits do sound wild.

I do agree with you that the gentle approach doesn't work either, but screaming and throwing away toys does sound a bit like a loss of control.

Would have been put in his bedroom and not allowed to be with us. DS is very sociable and hates missing out so that was his weak spot. It happened twice when he misbehaved as a young child. Know thine enemy was what my Mother quoted from Sun Tzu about raising children. Having children is like warfare sometimes, a battle of wills.

Funnily enough, my unhinged parenting has produced several very polite, happy and successful children. Who come home and tell me in shocked voices about the absolutely dreadful behaviour of a couple of their 'gently-parented' classmates, who are on course to be crackhead murderers from nice familes. 🤷‍♀️

You're being too wishy washy and soft - they have zero respect for you. Mine would have had a really good shouty telling off and sent to their room for a while - after which I'd have expected an apology. They have grown up to be respectful (and lovely) to me and other women.

They call other things fat like their toys, even the remote

But OP this is almost worse: they are not even using it as a purely descriptive term, but as a slur.

There are a lot of extremely odd people on here.

To be honest, the responses here seem mad to me for what is fairly standard small child naughtiness, I am reading it going ‘hug’. The suggestions the OP must be in an abusive relationship because otherwise how would a school age child know fat is an insult - really

I am a gentle parent but I would go full on scorched earth for things like this, they would both be in deep trouble each and every time that behaviour presented itself.

My nearly four year old has never come out with anything like that yet, but we take unkind behaviour very seriously every single time. She has the understanding that if she does certain things, like stamping her feet and shouting or being rude to a friend, she will be removed from whatever fun thing we are doing immediately, told off and then receive a consequence before apologising.

These consequences need to be whatever makes the biggest impact on them. Sometimes, if it’s serious, that would involve sitting out of the rest of a party, going home early, removing favourite toys or the tonie box, having to stay at home instead of doing activities etc. I have turned the car around, after a very enthusiastic tantrum and explained we can no longer go to (insert exciting activity here) due to her behaviour and stuck to it. I don’t think just taking a treat or toy away for a while will cut it.

The consequences last the rest of the day, the behaviour is discussed again before bedtime and any future repeats are taken more seriously and consequences last longer.

Since she was an early talker, I have been doing this since she was two and it does feel hard to tell them off when they’re little, but it does work.

Edit: didn’t mean to quote PP but completely agree the telling off would also be impactful for this.

No screen time and no snacks. All day.
if it happens again no screen time and no treat snacks (something healthy ok) 1 week
if it happens again (!) no screen time and no treat snacks 1month

if you ever get to the 1month then it will be painful following through but trust me it is worth it. For the rest of their life they know that when you say there is a red line they know what it is. You will have taught them that you mean what you say.

Is this for real!?

Good parenting isn't about scaring children, and that's not what consequences aim to do.

I had a friend do this; worked wonders.

Agreed. Kids need to learn that being that rude & disrespectful is going to provoke a reaction that they’re not going to like. That is the real world. I don’t mean smacking or any kind of physical violence, I mean a measured, firm, but rightly angry reaction and severe consequences

No screens of any kind or playdates until behaviour was acceptable for a significant period of time. I'm talking weeks, not minutes. Zero tolerance for anything like that coming out of their mouths. Every time it happens: 'We don't treat people like that. It's rude and disrespectful." Calmly and firmly, and all privileges immediately revoked again for another long period of time.

I'd also be talking to their teachers; I image they're doing it at school, too.

I just want to be clear that with this I certainly didn't mean smacking or hitting them at all. Just much more stern action, talking to, removing devices etc