Please tell me some of these things are made up-TW Epstein

Do you mean no victim testimonies apart from the very well documented testimonies of Virginia Guiffre, who wrote a book about it then killed herself? Or the testimonies of Epstein's butlers? Or the testimonies of the other Epstein victims such as Ashley Rubright and Annie Farmer? Or Katie Johnson who named Trump in court as assaulting her when she was 13? Or the quotes from Trump himself saying that Epstein liked his girls 'on the young side'? Or the testimonies and subsequent jailing of Ghislaine Maxwell for sex trafficking?

Apart from that (and the millions of pages of evidence on the gov website) I guess there isn't much, you're right.

Evidence of possible code words is not evidence for the pizza gate claims. That’s the problem with actual evidence. You can’t use it to extrapolate

But can’t you see that taking a position that these things happened but anyone who doesn’t believe you needs to search for the evidence themselves is bonkers.

the burden is on you to show what you are claiming.

people believing extreme things without specific proof often take this stance. Usually because the proof either doesn’t exist, or is misremembered, misrepresented, or made up.

horrible things happened. There is lots of evidence for them. Adding on made up things simply discredits the actual abuses and actual harm.

You keep saying believe victims but these are not victim testimonies. No one has come forward and said that they saw children and babies being SA. What you are referring to is a massive dump of correspondence and other materials that has not been verified. This is not to minimise the awfulness of what is known but to encourage people to focus on facts not internet driven theories.

The specific video might not be real (probably not), but there very much was thousands of files released (some later deleted by the government when they released Trump was too heavily implicated) that prove that there was/is a global sex trafficking ring chaired by rich and powerful people. The evidence suggests these girls were raped, tortured, possibly killed.

However, the President of the United States has been named thousands of times in these documents, and even before that had been implicated in the rape/assault/harassment of many, many women and girls. He didn't even really try to hide it. The fact he is still in office doesn't fill me with joy or hope. It also looks like he's going to rig the next US election even more heavily than the last. Maybe he learned from Putin, his best mate.

I'm glad at least we don't have any toad-faced politicians in this country who love Trump and want to replicate his odious agenda here.

Oh wait!

I just...despair.

Very sadly, there will have been a lot of screaming. Any children there would have been terrified and very likely thought they were going to be killed. I’ve been there as a CSA survivor.

It sounds like there’s fake stuff that’s been added, like including the German man who the German police are certain abducted and murdered Madeleine. The trouble is that adding fake information can cause people to doubt the rest of it (which might be the intention).

One thing is certain, we should be careful about assuming things are fake (apart from the obvious ones). It all turned out to be true in Jimmy Saville’s case.

This is why there needs to be full transparency and criminal charges against all those men who are found to be involved.

Totally agree.

It's bad enough that rich people with connections to powerful people have been protected, to some extent, from the consequences of their actions, without falling down the rabbit hole of shite that is floating around the internet.

That's not been mentioned once during their trials? They are sex abusers and traffickers.

I suspect a lot of the codewords are related to drugs. A lot more likely someone is getting drugs delivered to a hotel room than a child.

I believe that there are horrors happening in the world that are so heinous they would defy our imaginations. Before the internet we wouldn’t have had a clue that they were happening. Now they are getting onto our radar, and the internet also makes it easier for these sickos to recruit more sickos to participate.

These people are so powerful that we can’t do anything to stop them. Sometimes the only thing we can do is to step away from the internet to protect our own mental health.

Its all sadly very, very real. Its all on reddit.

Simpsons on point as ever

The previous poster gave you the link. Read the emails on the DOJ page for yourself. You can do it straight from the source. There are lots of them and they are quite dull but whatever they are talking about, it isn't pizza.

What has been “demonstrated in the thread to be made up?”

If you’re talking about the screaming video, you’ve got absolutely no idea whether that’s real or not. You have proof in no direction so do not make these sweeping assumptions as though they are fact.

if in doubt, believe victims.

I think you’re spot on, and many would not like to be seen as tin hat unreputable reporters. whilst it’s fine for us all to sit and talk about how this is very obviously code for “ordering” trafficked women and children and not pizza, it’s quite another to say it within the framework and rules of a professional journalist in a national newspaper. It could take just one court case brought by a person with a very expensive legal team for a newspaper group to be brought down and bankrupt.

I also think the Mandleson stuff has created a constitutional crisis with our Prime Minister and that’s a hot topic that reporters can’t help but focus on right now, and Browne Mandeslon or Starmer will dare be litigious over any of it.

But journalism overall does need to be much braver in these circumstances

Yes that’s very annoying, lots of random wingdings type text I’ve noticed.

I think that it is likely that the mainstream media are under-reporting for fear of legal proceedings. There has been very little comment about Trump’s involvement in the UK papers I have read, not surprisingly given Trump is so litigious. So I can see why people give the social media reports a bit of credence.

@FMLGFastMovingLuxuryGoodsI hadn’t picked up any of the coded messages about pizza, cream cheese, Wayfair etc in any of the reporting I have seen, so that has given me pause for thought to do my own research. The whole thing is utterly grim. Those poor people. I hope some of his victims finally have a sense of validation now the files have been released, but I wonder what more is being withheld.

There is another version of that same email about the Brazilian girl that says 19, not 9. Whatever software has been used to either trawl or upload the files has deleted some characters and replaced many others with an = sign for some reason. That’s one reason to approach it all with caution.

But why shouldn’t you find it yourself?

I told you how to listen to evidence - watch videos of his victims speaking out as adults. Have you done that?

And I dunno, maybe read the reputable sources that are the actual Epstein files? Rather than expecting others to do the hard work for you?

Im sure you just want a nice sanitised polite article with no grim details whatsoever lest someone else’s childhood trauma interrupt your cosy life for a moment. And I’m sure there are nice sanitised polite articles out there for you to read. But don’t sneer at others who accept the deeply insidious, dark and depraved nature of what really happened and are OK with talking about it in a public forum

no.you need to read the emails properly. There are references to torture in one at least and Epstein telling someone he gives him persmission to kill someone. In another there is reference to a ' sexy ' 9yr old Brazilian girl . There is a follow up in that conversation when whoever is talking to JE remarks that the youngest girl was a bit naughty.
I am trying to read as much source material as I can . We should all be doing that .

I don’t think it’s derailing.

From OP Was scrolling Instagram and heard horrible childrens screaming on a video, it was dark and I quickly went off it. I can’t stop thinking about it and just feel so distraught and really strange Is some of it all made up?

As demonstrated in the thread, yes some of the crap on social media is made up, by people who can’t point to any actual evidence so build it up in their heads. There are enough people doing it that they amplify it between them, but still can’t point to the actual content that are talking about, just deflecting with “find it yourself”. Quite probably they believe it, but that doesn’t make it true.

OP - stick to a variety of reputable sources, including the primary source (the email archive itself). Although if you are feeling sensitive be aware that what we do know to be true is bad enough.

Have you searched for the FBI report about the dead bodies buried on the island yet? And when you find it Are you going to apologise to @peanutbuttertoasty of accusing her of making stuff up when she didn’t?

JFC.

So you real think Epstein just ordered pizza for random people loads and has them delivered to them in complex ways, and they send emails to thank him and pictures laughing at sliced pizza?

BTW I looked up your attempts at a “gotcha” of Kangaroos and harmonicas. These are mainly from things like brochures for kangaroo island in Australia and articles about musicians that, for whatever reason, Epstein had in his personal files. The files are not just correspondence there’s a lot of random stuff that will just be that he’s looked at holidays home etc.

But 845 items of correspondence about pizza - unless you’re particularly dim I think it’s quite clear that is not about pizza.

Same for cream cheese. I’m sure this email is definitely just about cream cheese, babies and exploding and Epstein was nothing more than a connoisseur of fast food.

Are you trying to shut down the thread by being wilfully difficult and hard of understanding. People have repeatedly told you where to find the evidence and you keep asking the same things. Suggest grey rock on this one now, it’s a derail. I don’t know what the agenda is but it seems to be to minimise the crimes and discredit the victims.

You REALLY think that child sex traffickers are moral enough to have a lower age limit? And that no men interested in very young children were given access by Maxwell and Epstein?

Id love to be that naive

Have you even read any of the files?