To think people who work from home don’t understand this?! And they’re paid more usually

It’s definitely the seniority of the role, not the WFH. I’ve always been allowed to take doctors appts etc on my lunch break but my company were quite good with things like that. The more senior I got though, the longer I felt I could take for things like that and not have to ask permission from anyone regardless of whether I was working from home or in the office.

Being more senior you tend to have tangible work to complete such as presentations for meetings etc so the view is generally that you just manage your own workload.

OP people who WFH generally do understand this, this is one of the benefits of WFH.

Why do you have to take holiday to go to the dentist though? When I worked full time in the office it was understood you were allowed time off for medical and dental appointments. If you had to take them out of your holiday allowance you need to push back to your HR, that’s not normal ! Check your company policy on medical appointments in work hours (and dental appointments- bar for cosmetic dentistry) counts as medical.

Haircut, well yes, that’s a personal time thing. This is why most hairdressers are open on weekends and evenings.

If you are oddly wasting your holiday allowance on these things, this isn’t the fault of WFH but your poor choices.

It's not either or. I worked in the office for years in a job where, with agreement from my manager, I can leave early or start late for appointments, and make up the time another day. Or, I could take a 2-hr lunch break and again make up the time. People use this for dental appointments, or getting a broken boilet fixed, not haircuts!

Come covid we all worked from home, and mostly still do, and the same system continues. There is no "gallivanting around." People don't just finish at 3 to get their nails done.

I choose to be in my office full time. My work husband works full time from home but comes in for meetings sometimes. He is a gallivanter too. Going to the gym, taking his mother to lunch etc. But he does work in the evenings. It secretly makes me mental.

I work hybrid and can’t just nipped out to get my hair cut etc on my 1 hour lunch. If I go to the dr I’ll make up the time(wfh makes that easier) and they ask that we try to get an appointment at the stat or end of the day. If I go to the hairdresser or optician it will be at the weekend or on a late night opening and I go to my dentist when they open late (usually on a Thursday they open to 6.30).

My daft counter to your daft idea:
More holiday for wfh workers so we can go away and actually switch off and get away from the office

I can WFH and I can also work from hair appts, holiday….you name it, I can work from it.
If you want me to meet you midweek for lunch, I can.

But the flip side is my work does not stop at 5pm, I don’t have free weekends, I work for hours almost every evening and often 6am Saturday and/or Sunday until the rest of the house wakes up at 9 or 10. Flexibility means I can work more….and I do.

I am reasonably well paid, but I work very hard for it. However, if you happen to see me in a mid morning yoga class you’d probably think otherwise. I never work less than 70 hours a week and take one fully switched off holiday a year.

There are (usually) 2 sides to every story.

Working from home doesn’t necessarily mean lots of flexibility and working in the workplace doesn’t necessarily mean no flexibility.

WFH then!

I've worked in offices where some people are never at their desk, they're out shopping or for coffee or pretending they're having an important meeting, desk hopping for catch-ups etc. also seen people sitting at their desk with a privacy screen or tucked into a corner and watching a film. I kid you not. Others start very early but spend the first hour or more nattering. Plenty of others are head down and working all day long.

I and some of my colleagues currently work from home and usually put in more than the paid hours. We also have breaks, go for a walk, have a natter to colleagues on line, put a wash on, chop veg for dinner etc but are always up to date with the work. If I was falling behind my manager would be having words.

Working from home doesn't always mean skiving, just as being in the office doesn't always mean you're working.

On the ‘more annual leave’ thing. I couldn’t take the leave I had as too much work to do, or had to take my laptop with me. Be careful what you wish for.

You're just jealous that your friends have work from home jobs with flexibility and you don't.

We cant collectively condemn them to make you feel better. Find a WFH job or change your job!

The bitterness will eat you alive and your friends can definitely tell.

Why does it have to be 'fair'? Different jobs at different levels give different perks

There are lots of jobs where you can’t even take time off for the dentist such as teaching. When I worked from home in HE, all phone calls were put through to our mobiles so we had to be available in working hours.

Why? You said yourself that people ‘galavanting’ around during the day are making up the hours in the evening.

for a lot of office based roles, it’s possible to be outputs focused not just on focused on hours inputted. My boss honestly does not care what hours we do as long as we’re available when needed and get the job done. As it should be.

and I think the vast majority of people who wfh understand perfectly well that you can’t do appointments during the day anywhere near as easily as you might if you wfh.

you just sound bitter and resentful tbh.

I am sorry . How old are you? It's not fair? Oh bless

What has fair got to do with life?

Is it fair that some children are born in Gaza but I assume you weren't? Is it fair sone people are born more beautiful than others or richer than others.

Fair ia a very childish concept unless.it.is applied in specific circumstances. Almost everything in life can be seen as unfair in some way

If you were in the same jobs and one was paid less then maybe that would be unfair though even then it would depend on different things like length of service etc

If you want a more flexible job, give some thought to how you might make that possible for you.

When I worked from home I couldn't use that time for a hair appointment, neither did anyone I know. We worked , in fact we worked far more hours than when I was in the office all the time because we were expected to carry on checking /responding to emails in the evenings too.

I work 3 days home/2 days in the office usually. Yeah I won’t pretend it’s not convenient sometimes but I definitely don’t “go gallivanting” during the day! I’d never arrange a hair appointment in work time and dental appointments are like twice a year and I tend to book them at lunchtime. The only thing I miss work for is to take my DD to orthodontist checkups or occasional school assemblies - but that’s an hour out of the day which I catch up on later.
I don’t like working in the evenings generally because it eats in to family time.
I do understand that some people can’t WFH but I can so it’s not my problem really.

I work from home 4 days a week, and my flexibility is the same as it was when in the office 5 days per week. I work flexi time. And it’s that perk that allows me time to nip out on my lunch break when at the office in the city centre for an hour to Primark, or to nip into Aldi also near my office to pick up ingredients for tea, because I can work until 6pm to offset that long lunch.

My flexibility is entirely to do with the policies my employer has around flexible working.

I was going to say that this is a prime example of people who don't have experience of working from home really don't understand what working from home actually means. When I have read the full post however, I can see how you have been influenced by your friend. Her situation is not typical for most people. I work hybrid and have to do as much at home as I do when I am in the office. The only advantage is I don't have to travel on those days. I think most people who work from home are in the same boat as me.

If I need a dentist appointment, I try to book for 8am. They used to do Saturday appointments but stopped. Hairdressers work Saturdays and some late evenings.

Do you just want sympathy?

YABU @Ugriap The vast VAST majority of people have not always worked from home you know. And shocker - most people do actually work as hard if they work from home. Yes, they have a bit more flexibility, but not loads. My DD works from home, 50% of the time - middle management - and she can't just fuck about doing what she wants, she has a busy job, and many tasks involved in it.

Do you think people like her are just lying in til 10am, popping out for a Costa with a mate at 11.30am, coming back in at 1.30pm, and putting the washing on, taking the dog for a walk, and resuming work at 2.15pm?! Then finishing at 4pm?!!

No employer is going to allow this!

If life is a bit easier for people (because of WFH,) like a better work/life balance, and sometimes the ability to go to appointments when they need to, I think it's a good thing. Why be so angry and bitter that other peoples lives are a little bit easier?

You need to work out what it is you want.

fairness has nothing to do with it. A senior level will often come with flexibility whether at home or in the office, but it also comes with more responsibility, maybe being more available in evenings and weekends etc

YABU @Ugriap The vast VAST majority of people have not always worked from home you know. And shocker - most people do actually work as hard if they work from home. Yes, they have a bit more flexibility, but not loads. My DD works from home, 50% of the time - middle management - and she can't just fuck about doing what she wants, she has a busy job, and many tasks involved in it.

Do you think people like her are just lying in til 10am, popping out for a Costa with a mate at 11.30am, coming back in at 1.30pm, and putting the washing on, taking the dog for a walk, and resuming work at 2.15pm?! Then finishing at 4pm?!!

No employer is going to allow this!

If life is a bit easier for people (because of WFH,) like a better work/life balance, and sometimes the ability to go to appointments when they need to, I think it's a good thing. Why be so angry and bitter that other peoples lives are a little bit easier?

What makes you think she doesn’t understand?