To agree with the Guardian about the Netflix coverage of the Lucy letby case?

It’s not all about her just keeping these notes,
It’s the whole picture around the notes, which is
-filing them in chronological order
-putting them in a box she marked “KEEP”
-lying to the police when asked if she had a shredder.

All of her behaviour around these notes, leads to questions, especially the lying under police caution.

I've got bags of stuff I need to take into work to shred. Why haven't I taken it in yet? I must be a murderer I suppose

She had them in several different boxes (including the box the shredder came in!) and a couple of bags. She also moved house with a load of them - why not just take them back to work at that point if that was always her plan?

And why did she say that she hadn’t disposed of them because she didn’t have a shredder at home?

@rubbishatballet yes in the report they did speak with people who worked at the hospital - I’ve listened to the analysis of the report, not just read the bbc article. I didn’t say it was a commissioned investigation or done by the hospital, I was replying to Aquarius91 who was shouting ‘TikTok conspiricy theorists’ - it’s not a conspiracy, it’s an expert panel report that digs extensively into the case, who had involvement in the prosecution and felt evidence was presented misleadingly. It’s been widely reported on and I’m always surprised on these LL threads when people haven’t heard about it.

There was a shredder in a room. But people have pointed out that you don't shred confidential waste from work in a little home shredder. You'd have to bring it back in some time.

Keep, as in don't throw out, yes, because you can't throw out confidential waste.

Chronological order - either she organized them, or she just put them in in the order she brought them home.

If it wasn't so grim, it would really make me laugh that people think that Ben Myers, an enormously qualified and experienced barrister didn't call witnesses because he just couldn't be arsed, or was incompetent or something. If there was anyone he could have put on the stand that would have thrown even reasonable doubt on the case, he would have. OBVIOUSLY.

@rubbishatballet yes in the report they did speak with people who worked at the hospital - I’ve listened to the analysis of the report, not just read the bbc article. I didn’t say it was a commissioned investigation or done by the hospital, I was replying to Aquarius91 who was shouting ‘TikTok conspiricy theorists’ - it’s not a conspiracy, it’s an expert panel report that digs extensively into the case, who had involvement in the prosecution and felt evidence was presented misleadingly. It’s been widely reported on and I’m always surprised on these LL threads when people haven’t heard about it.

Did you watch documentary? It showed they were in a box marked keep and the police said they were in chronological order.

LL said she kept them because she didn’t know how to dispose of them as she didn’t have a shredder.

Even though there was a nice shredder in the corner of the room.

Did you watch documentary? It showed they were in a box marked keep and the police said they were in chronological order.

LL said she kept them because she didn’t know how to dispose of them as she didn’t have a shredder.

Even though there was a nice shredder in the corner of the room.

That is not true they were found in a carrier bag under her bed & in a black bin bag in the garage so obviously not in chronological order maybe together as she emptied her pockets.

If it wasn't so grim, it would really make me laugh that people think that Ben Myers, an enormously qualified and experienced barrister didn't call witnesses because he just couldn't be arsed, or was incompetent or something. If there was anyone he could have put on the stand that would have thrown even reasonable doubt on the case, he would have. OBVIOUSLY.

@rubbishatballet it was a report published a year ago by a doctor who’s papers had been used in her trial inaccurately, details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8y28ny1n0o

Theres also a very good Redhanded podcast that breaks down each argument and piece of evidence. None of the 14 experts on the panel concluded Lucy was guilty, and other doctors came forward to say they not called as witnesses even after coming forward with evidence that supported her defence.

@Aquarius91 there was a huge separate independent investigation to the case with lots of leading doctors and people who worked in that hospital where it was determined the hospital were covering up their own errors and no murders took place. Also lots of professionals weren’t called to present evidence that would have shown she may not have done it. She was massively let down by her defence team. It’s not TikTok and conspiracy theories - it’s a widely reported independent investigation by a panel of experts and leading figures in the NHS.

I would be prepared to put money on the fact that they didn't call the witness because they realised his evidence was discredited and would harm Letby's case.

Absolute joke considering the conspiracy theorists are out in force e here who’s primary information source is probably TikTok and you tube. How arrogant to assume you know more than the expert witnesses and jury who have actually heard the evidence.
Am I saying with 100% certainty there wasn’t a miscarriage of justice? Of course not, I’m not that arrogant. But I trust the justice system in this country and believe that posting stuff like this when there are bereaved parents potentially reading is absolutely crass.

I would be prepared to put money on the fact that they didn't call the witness because they realised his evidence was discredited and would harm Letby's case.

@rubbishatballet but they failed to call an expert witness to challenge the evidence given by the prosecution's "expert" witness. A fundamental failure.

I'm so sorry you went through that.
I've been questioned by people including the police over my lack of tears and obvious grief when a family member died unexpectedly (massive brain aneurism dead before he hit the ground). I am asd and rarely cry, I either shutdown completely or just go numb, cold and analytical when it comes to grief as I just can't emotionally deal with it. Yet the police and others judged me for it even after the autopsy came back i didn't get an apology just got blamed for my "suspicious affect". Noone could understand why a 17 year old kid with asd might not react as expected when their grandfather literally dropped dead infront of them.
The only person who showed any compassion was the pathologist who I guess has seen just about every type of grief out there and recognised that I was still in shock.
I really wish people would stop judging people for not crying or behaving as they deem appropriate.

All the comments about her emotional presentation or lack of it really grind my gears.

I happen to know, from bitter cumulative experience, that prolonged periods of stress and trauma do very weird things to a person. It is medical fact that neurological pathways get re-wired, the brain physically changes as a form of self defence. It can be seen on scans. That's how it's known about, it's neuroplasticity.

Years of being bullied and under suspicion can lead to CPTSD. The brain goes into survival mode. Hypervigilance and paranoia are big features. After a while numbness can set in.

Crying or not crying is not a good indicator of guilt or how a person thinks or feels.

A couple of months after Iost my DP, the absolute most crushing blow on top of years of unexpected and difficult life events, I bumped into someone who knew him through his work, in a pub. They were celebrating their birthday and extremely drunk. I was not. They wept and wailed on my shoulder for nearly half an hour, while I stood dry eyed feeling completely semi-detached. And I'm sure they wondered how or why I wasn't falling apart, because to be fair I was wondering that too. But I couldn't just turn on the tears because a performance might be seen as appropriate.

When I was under scrutiny for three years, I read reports that criticised me for being too emotional - I was six weeks post partum after a traumatic birth and brwildered, terrified for my DC and angry. Down the line when I'd pulled myself together for the fight of my life, I was criticised for being too cold and analytical - but still angry. I could not win.And neither can Lucy Letby.

At that point what they didn't see was me sitting in cold baths at 3am because I truly believed I was going to self combust, because if what was hapoening was possible, so was every unlikely / impossible thing . And I couldn't even seek help or support for that because it would have given them another weapon to use in their quest to prove I was an unstable and unfit mother, because much like Lucy Letby, all their "evidence" was based on "medical opinion". I've written about it elsewhere on here if anyone wants to look. And I don't care if people think I'm lying, or biased, I have the receipts and I fucking lived it, and barely survived.

On this forum, people are very quick to criticise posters who claim they are shaking and crying for any reason. They are accused of lack of resilience. People are very quick to project how they imagine they would react or behave in certain situations. Certain experiences soon provide unwelcome enlightenment that everyone is different, and while crying might be a typical or expected reaction to certain things, sometimes a person doesn't for multiple complex reasons. We are complex individuals and much as we like to think we know it all, we really don't