What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

Agree @Strangerthanfictions

Individually, it is possible that some men can be nice.

But collectively they're a bit shit aren't they?

Tell her that men who seek power to that level tend to be more Machiavellian, narcisstic and sometimes psychopathic than the general population of men.

OP can you ask her to think around her statement 'This is what men do when they have power'? Might it be reframed as: people who crave power are more likely to behave this way?

I mistrust men (and women) who want power. People who lust after power love controlling others - and they don't see others as human - just commodities. I mistrust people whose highest objective in life is to gain wealth or power. They lack fundamental aspects of humanity.

@JMSA I don't think you should be sad about this at all - I think you can be proud of having done a brilliant job at raising a smart and empathetic daughter who has enough gumption to call out shitty male behaviour for what it is! You've also clearly got a relationship with her that allows her to talk (vent!) freely to you, which is great. Opinions change as we go through life; she may not always feel so strongly. Or maybe she will, you know, if Andrew Tate ends up being president #48 or something 😬

(But also, I have been known to vent that men ain't shit, and I'm a lot older than her and also married to one. I like to tell him he's on indefinite probation 🤣)

You sound like my mum in 1985 OP. She was sad I (as a teen) had been taught all the different forms of contraception, and how to avoid getting AIDs.

She wanted me to live in a perfect world where everyone met their perfect partner at 18 and settled to have a whole brood of children by 20.

My school, more sensibly, had prepared me for the real world. Your dd is very sensibly seeing the world as it really is.

Fair enough but 'it's not all men' feels dismissive, even if it's not intended to be.

Based on her personal life experience, plus the daily news, what other sane conclusion could she come to?

My daughter is pretty much the same way but now has a gay male friend.

Gosh yes, I see what you mean. Of course, we are - statistically - vanishingly unlikely to rape, drug, punch, strangle or stab any men on the basis of our “misandry”, but women being mean on the internet is totally an equivalent social evil to the pandemic of VAWG 🙄

She obviously has a pretty good head on her shoulders. A significant minority of men are awful - they kill a woman about every 3 days (and a man every day). This thread is absolutely right about the misogyny and violence that men mete out to women.

I would suggest, however, that the Epstein files are no more documented proof men are evil than it would be to suggest that the fact that Theresa May introduced the hostile environment, Priti Patel the Rwanda scheme, or Marine LePen leading National Rally were documented proof that women are racist.

Generalisations are useful and definitely should be part of her tools for thinking about the world and the risks in it, but they aren't universal truths.

Don't tell her it's not all men. She's not an idiot. She knows it's not all men. She's allowed to form her own opinions based on what she sees in the world. Her take on the Epstein files is hard to argue with. Instead of dismissing her feelings maybe try saying something like that it makes you sad but you can see why she feels that way. Her views will adapt and change as her experiences change.

She sounds pretty insightful for her age.

One woman's 'misandry' is another woman's reality.

As the mother of 3 adult sons and an adult DD, this thread is really depressing. If you genuinely think the Epstein files are typical of all men, you're a) completely wrong and b) should probably start surrounding yourself with better people.

If someone tried to get me to step up by saying they hate all women and it was up to me to prove we're not all just meal-ticket seeking manipulators, or hated all Northerners, we're just thick scum and I need to step up and prove them wrong, I wouldn't be inclined to try and win them over. I'd think they were narrow minded bigots and socialise elsewhere.

Try treating people as individuals. It's fairer.

I don’t get it. A thread where women are expressing hatred of men and then claiming that misogyny is off the scale! Misandry is ok though?

OP, I think you are right to be concerned about the generalised alienation of the sexes from one another. It’s not just your daughter and it doesn’t bode well.

This, this, a million times this. 🙌👏

My eldest daughter feels like this too and I’m glad. I wish I’d come to the same realisation when I was younger. Sadly it was the norm back then to put up with harassment by men and laugh along at their groping and lewd remarks.
I have a nice partner now after many years of shit, manipulative men. If we split up though I’d happily be single for the rest of my life. There are far more rubbish men than there are decent ones (in my experience)

Young women like your daughter are essentially demanding that men step up.

I see that as a good thing.

Porn is ruining young men. Misogyny is widespread. DV and sexual assaults are on the rise. Justice for same is thin on the ground.

She's just being realistic. This is the world she lives in. I'd be more concerned if she was idealistic/naive about men tbh.

I think she has a point. She sounds great!

She is right to be concerned about this! There are so many influential and political men still in government and important jobs involved that it becomes more disgusting, demeaning to women and frankly shite beggaring belief that they all need f word sacked and their money given to charities! It’s like a TV drama but real!