What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

Your DD may come to a more nuanced view in time, but in a way I am glad and saddened in equal measure that the behaviour of too many men is recognised.

My daughter is 19 and I could say the same!

Of course it's not all men who ae rapists and kill women.

But (and I wish I could find it and hope that someone else has shared it and I've just missed it!) it's like that info graphic that shows its not that a small % of men are bad and the rest are good. It's the sliding scale of those who stand by and silently allow misogynistic comments; those who laugh at demeaning jokes about women to fit in; those who go along with it, whilst not necessarily believing it, so they don't lose face with other men - the men who wouldn't actively do it themselves but who are silent bystanders while other men do.

Those men aren't the gold class villains but they allow it to thrive. They give permission to those men .

And the survey of male university students who anonymously admitted that they would rape a woman (or coerce her into sex) if they were confident there'd be no consequences.

The numerous threads on here which detail lazy, incompetent, unfaithful, emotionally unavailable men.

The rapes that never get reported (twice in my case) because the woman knew that it wpuld be her word against his and his voice wpuld be listened to.

The woman who was raped. Who was seen being dragged down a dirt road by a man, who was heard screaming, who was found wandering naked and distressed afterwards, where the man got off without charge because the court concluded that she'd worn a black lace thong when she'd gone out that night so she was obviously looking for sex with someome.

My daughter is at university 200 miles away and catches the train often to travel cross country, who hasn't completed a single journey over the last 18 months without being approached, harassed, blocked into her seat, followed, asked for her number by at least one (and often more) men and who ae rarely her own age.

She travels in daytime and is constantly risk assessing throughout the whole journey, adjusting her seating position, mindful of her aurroundings and even that doesn't protect her from it.

So, yeah, it's hard to argue with her really.

If men want women to see them differently, they need, as a class, to do better.

ETA: my daughter does have a lovely boyfriend (good boundaries!) And I've raised my son to he a good man. My partner is essentially good but has been educated on unconscious biases and the difference between genuinely being a good man and one who just isn't actively bad.

There is hope. But the work is on men to do now. Its not for women to continue to make excuses and tolerate shitty behaviour

DDs dad, who she previously idolised, cheated on me and she found the evidence. Now her bf, who we thought (hoped) was better than that has just done the same thing. It doesn’t exactly inspire my poor dd with confidence in future relationships with men. Neither are bad people by any stretch but weak, shallow.

Good for her, those incel types will hit a brick wall with her. Wish I’d had her wisdom when I was her age. She’s right to be on alert but I hope she does find a kind man and goes on to have a fulfilling relationship. There are a few about.

Notice how the patriarchy goes quiet when other men get caught out, Epstein etc or when other males abandon their kids?? They close ranks. Those on here saying this young woman is wrong to feel the way she feels are actually being abusive. To tell the oppressed to ‘be kind’ to their oppressor is disgusting. Either they are men themselves or male centred women who need their heads examined.

Speak from the heart. She is a woman, you are a woman. You both have to navigate living in this world, and your experiences and lifestages will give you different perspectives on the same issue. Rather than see it as being something you need to respond appropriately to so you can help or make her feel better (how can you without minimising?) See it as two women having a conversation. If you agree, say so. If you have a different opinion, offer it. Rather than a problem mum needs to reassure about, it's an issue for two women to discuss and, like when we do it on here, that can feel supportive and enriching in itself, for you both.

It wasn't just Myra Hindley though was it?

100 times this!! I’m lucky enough to be married to one of the good ones (I think 👀) but it could’ve been so different, I wasn’t brought up to value myself (women in general) or to expect very much from men at all… I never really knew a good one until I met my now husband. The ones close to me were violent, liars, cheats, alcoholics, bullies… you name it! I hope your daughter is firm enough to never accept any of that shit.

Yes.... hundreds of men in the Epstein files and some pretty horrific stuff coming out, but the only person doing time for these disgusting acts is a woman.

Misandry is not a thing. It's men that don't like other men being called out that throw that phrase around.

NAMALT, but most are, not in big ways like Epstein, but in smaller ways; routine sexual coercion and manipulation, future faking, devaluing of their partner's career, lack of responsibility for relationships (their children included), road rage, anti social drinking, porn use, watching women take their clothes off with their friends for some good old 'Harmless Fun'...

A large minority get better with age and emotional maturity.

Like PPs, I wish I'd had the same attitude as your DD (and my DD). My sisters and I were brought up to value a man's approval above all else, not from what anyone said to us (apart from my GM😅), but from what we saw and heard all around us during our childhood. 2 of 3 of us traumatised and affected still now as a result.

We grew up in an era when society had been conned into thinking that teen and pre teen girls (aka children) wanted sex. We had parents from the 'free love' era and then coming through the 90s ladette phase when we could be groomed and sexually abused ironically, and actually more openly.

She’s not jaded, she’s saying what she sees. Hopefully some examples of decent men will improve her data on men but that’s up to men isn’t it.

I don’t read it as she hates every single man on the planet. More that she is educating herself and hates abusive men and misogyny as she should. Saying ‘it’s not all men’ is really unhelpful because whilst not all men are rapists/ murderers the majority of men play into this system of oppressing women one way or another. I’m guessing you are worried she won’t meet a man to build a life with, well firstly that’s not the be all and end all and secondly it just means if she dates she will have high standards. Nothing wrong with that.

Agree we've gone backwards. I'm of the controversial view that TV such as Love Island and the propensity of women to look completely fake (like bloody sex dolls with blow up lips and boobs) has done untold damage to the women's rights and the increase in misogyny.

There’s no male equivalent of bitch or Karen because those words are used to try to shame and shut ‘mouthy’ women up. I know there was originally a racial element to ‘Karen’ but it’s not particularly how it’s used now.

Look around you and you will see plenty of emotionally unstable male behaviour. Men are sometimes better at hiding emotions, until they build up and are expressed in unhealthy or harmful ways, or expressed only as anger because it’s how they are taught. Anger is a more acceptable emotion for men to display. This does not mean they’re better at it, it’s the opposite in fact.

Honestly do nothing! and she does have a point.

My DD is 25 and I did start to worry that in my attempt to ensure she knew her worth, had boundaries and stood up for herself that I had gone too far and she just hated men.

However as she got older and her friends started to meet serious boyfriends she got to see the value of a loving and supportive relationship and is now very happy with a lovely boyfriend, boundaries and all intact!

I agree with her.
At her age, I thought the bad ones were in the minority.
Now I know it’s the good ones who are.

They already do act the same. The vast number of abusers are not millionaires. The men raping Gisèle* *Pelicot were not millionaires. Fritzl wasn’t a millionaire. The Yorkshire Ripper wasn’t a millionaire and so on and on and on. They were just men. Standard men with standard jobs who took every opportunity to harm women.

Another one who largely agrees with her. I find most men deeply mediocre.

Of course it has nothing to do with their wealth. A lot of men are simply disturbed individuals. Just look at the Pelicot case, in the radius of 50 kilometres a man managed to find at least 80 men who were willing to come and rape his drugged up unconscious wife over and over again. These men were just ordinary men walking around us, teachers, truck drivers, nurses etc. There is absolutely no way of knowing.

This is the worry. There are plenty of women who would not cover themselves in glory given unlimited power and resources of course, but the behaviour would probably be a bit different.

You’re not going to get a medal from the menfolk you know, no matter how much you bend over backwards to defend a sex class that is responsible for raping, pillaging and destroying everything they touch the world over. But let me guess: you’re a “cool girl”? One of the “lads”? They’ll still do the same to you given half a chance.

Does she has a decent father? Or other male influences? Maybe just reiterate how yes SOME men are evil etc.

Same! Sounds to me like she has her head screwed on.

Genuine question, doesn't it make you feel like if given half the opportunity and the same amount of money, many men who act the same? A minority I hope, but not a significant minority. If you gave that money and power to any man on the street, how many would have flown to Epstein's Island?

There is a very depressing study out there that anonymously asked a random sample of men if no one ever found out, would they have sex with an underage girl (I mean below 16) and most said yes. I try not to think about it.

I don’t blame her, it makes me feel like this too. I also think that namalt. But so many of these rich men have been up to shadiness. On top of that perverted and morally corrupt billionaires are being allowed to meddle in politics, given positions of political power and allowed to exert influence on politics and policy. It appears this has gone on for years and it is still going on but in the open now.