What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

She is a smart girl. I’m disgusted with the files too and the 100,000’s story of abuse daily in the newspaper.

Hate in all its forms is harmful, particularly when it is targeted against an entire gender, sexuality or race.

I mean, imagine if someone said they hated muslims, jews, gays etc? Even if the person saying that had no intention of wanting to harm those people, making a statement like that would still be unacceptable in this day and age and likely get you in hot water if shared on social media.

Language matters. Saying you hate anything completely is toxic and ridiculous. Does this girl hate her dad, brother, David Attenborough? You'd assume not, but why not? They're still men. She hates men, after all.

@greycarpetyes I grew up with one of those male centred mothers. She’s a pathetic doormat and they are terrible mothers to their daughters. The internalised misogyny is astonishing. The patriarchy got her well trained.

Women who hate men tend to avoid them. Men who hate women rape, abuse and murder them. Is there anything there that you think might have resulted in us seeing the second as more problematic than the first?

This thread has made me think of that bastard surgeon, Ian Paterson, who performed unnecessary and unregulated breast surgeries on women and maimed them and didn’t actually remove their cancer. Just for the sheer fun of it.

Of course. I should have remembered that on MN, misandry is rife. Men are the enemy just because they are men.

You have to give Marjorie Taylor Greene her dues here. She has stood up to Trump at least. Lots of MAGA just have absolutely no backbone, I include Vance in this who is a massive disappointment. If you read his book, he was grounded and sensible a decade ago and makes some groundbreaking points about the working class but now is living in a Faustian nightmare.

I would make sure she understands that the news shows extremes and rarely talks about men who do good. There are plenty of good men in this world but they're not 'news-worthy'. It's a real shame that young women hate men. I think this is one of the saddest threads I've ever read.

I thought pp was implying that lesbians are better partners because they are women? Why else would they be encouraging Op to tell her daughter to ridiculously, "become lesbiani"?

I teach young women of 18-22, and I teach them their own (women's) history. I think most women coming into adult understanding and feminism have a moment of incandescent rage when the penny drops.

@JMSA's DD is going through that, and GOOD for her!

The main thing is to live through it and understand there are good men who are human beings, and to also realise that great strength can come from female friendships and solidarity. And find your way into being an assertive and confident woman, in spite of the entitled partriarchy.

I think it’s ok to feel this way personally, especially at her age. It obviously isn’t all men but it’s almost always men. Women did play a role in Epstein’s crimes though, I think women who were in awe of him or even a bit in love with him like Maxwell but also Fergie… He was a good looking chap, I suspect charming too and he preyed on those women too. Maxwell joined in with his crimes though so she was particularly heinous.

Then there’s Hillary Clinton. Think of her what you will, that woman has covered for her husband so much over the years and is now even willing to attempt to cover up his crimes here. Feminist she ain’t. To be honest, dare I say the Queen also covered for Andrew…

Does nobody here have sons? If you do, do you really think that your son is the exception or do you hate them as much as you hate other men? All the sons of people on this thread can’t possibly be the exceptions. It’s fascinating and depressing.

Let her be. I'd be proud of a daughter who sees very clearly the ethical horrors coming from the Epstein files.

It's important that women realise what entitled abusers men can be. 98% of sexual crime is committed by men, remember.

Not all men, but mostly only men.

As Germaine Greer said: "Women don't realise how much men hate them."

It's good she goes through this rage, but don't try to sugar coat it or stop it. She'll come through it, and be all the stronger for it.

Tell her to put down her phone and get out into the real world.

Does she have an opinion on the women mentioned in the report? And the MAGA women defending trump?

your dd is smart I would be very proud to have a dd who was so clued up

the it’s not all men has been a defence for men for far too long

all the men exposed in the files all this information has been known for some time and only one person in prison a woman that tells you everything

Jaded? I think the problem is that you are rather blind.
Of course it is not all men. But enough of them engaged on this shite. She is grounded and right to be wary and keep her eyes open. If she finds one she can trust, then she will.

So a woman being cruel says that women are inherently cruel. A man being a rapist is just an individual man and NAMALT. Got it.

Young man says he 'hates women' - clearly misogynist, dangerous, needs intervention to adopt healthier beliefs.

Young woman says she 'hates men' - no problem, 100% justified, you go girl!

The double standards are quite frankly ridiculous. Yes, there are plenty of terrible men in the world, but there are also plenty of very horrible women too. Have you asked her what she's thought about Ghislaine Maxwell or Fergie, or is it only the men in the Epstein files that attract her anger?

It's just an extension of women making excuses for men as women always have.

My mother was absolutely convinced that men just don't know how to use washing machines, or cook, or communicate. And there are still women today who genuinely believe that the many options on a domestic appliance are confusing.

I grew up with the narrative that men don't know their own minds; that women tempt men and don't even realise they're doing it; that, "Men!" Bless them, are just a bit clueless.

For some women defending men is such a strong instinct that to not do so feels like a betrayal.

No you aren’t wrong, your instinct is correct which is that the majority of men are largely fine - she’s taking an extreme position (not saying she’s wrong, but it is extreme) and of course you’re going to react the way you have.

But I think when there's things to be jaded about I don't think it's unreasonable to be so. Depressing that it's the way it is? yes - but there's no point in papering over the reality around her. That's how it carries on and on.

It’s exceptions that prove the rule often though isn’t it? She was horrible but I don’t have the sense that she was motivated by having unfettered access to sex. She already had that with Dennis.

I'd strongly suggest she doesn't. An intelligent and informed young woman would destroy this in ten seconds flat. I'm sure the OP doesn't want to lose her DDs respect.