What should I say to my 19 year old daughter who has already decided that she hates men?

I mean . . . if there's not a single man in your lives you can point to to prove to her that not all men are like that . . .

Does she have any positive male role models in her life?

My DD was very much like this when she was 18. She had a few boyfriends who, in her own words were 'lying, controlling, twats' and I think with all the things happening in the world it made her start to hate men.

I personally don't think its bad to say that its not all men, because that is a fact. Its NOT all men. There are many wonderful and amazing men in the world so a reminder that there are some decent men out there I don't think is too bad a thing. And a healthy debate on her thoughts and opinions is fine, where you listen to her thoughts and feelings and why she has come to this conclusion and challenge them a little with your own without pushing yours onto her and ultimately not stifle what she thinks and feels.

With my DD I allowed her to express her opinions and feel what she felt and make her own mind up on things. She still feels very strongly that men are the root of all evil in general and that much of the worlds issues and problems are because of men but she is now not so 'one size fits all' when it comes to this. Her opinions and thoughts have softened a little as she grows older and learns more. She has stopped saying she hates men but is still very wary of all their faults and has a pretty low opinion of them in general.

She met a guy last year who has been amazing. Treats her well, is kind and loving and is her best friend. So she has found out for herself now that there are good men in the world. But I think part of her still expects him to let her down or hurt her in some way. And she also has a Dad who is the most amazing male role model for her which has helped her views.

Blame your sons own shitty gender for the feelings of anger and disgust women have towards the male species.
Rather than trying to blame women for being ‘unreasonable’ to be cautious, maybe men should be calling each other’s shitty behaviour out and getting angry with the ones that sully their gender as a whole.
i have a 15 year old son and whilst I love him endlessly, I am under no illusion that just because he’s my son he doesn’t have the potential to be another shitty male. His father and I are making it our priority to raise him to understand respect and consent because I don’t want to send another shitty male out into the world.

What's 'vile' about it? Genuinely curious as to what in that post motivated such a dramatic and hyperbolic response? This isn't a man who is a victim, who has been harmed in any way. Its a man who has the minor inconvenience of leaving the door open when in a meeting with a colleague. The poster is being sarcastic about the idea we should feel pity for him. Genuinely, what is wrong with that?

I see some of the most disgusting posts have now been deleted. It's time to block the accounts of these men who rock up and regularly post sexist hate on threads about women's rights and safety @MNHQ . If you're not sure who they are, there are plenty of posters on this thread who can help you with the list.

Hating men fuels the divide, rather than builds bridges or mutual respect.

Not hating all men does not automatically make one a panderer. Some of us chose to work with our DHs to ensure that our DS’s are raised to be respectful and considerate of the women in their lives. Some of us have DHs who champion women in the workplace, actively seeking to support and train women returning after career breaks, for example.

But feel free to disparage both my DH and myself. I’m an ardent feminist. That does not mean I hate men. Misandry is NOT the antidote to misogyny. In fact the former fuels the latter.

But I see, finally, that MN is not a space for rational discussion and one which seems to celebrate and feed misandry. On that basis I am well and truly out.

Tibetan Buddhists’ spiritual leader tells BBC that a female Dalai Lama would have to be ‘very, very, attractive’ or be ‘not much use’:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/24/dalai-lama-sexist-quip-ruffles-equality-activists

I don't think it's a bad thing to feel this way at 19, means she will focus on other things while she is setting up a life for herself. Then maybe one day meet someone who will change her mind.

I don't think that anyone has said that women can't be horrible?

It's just that men are much, much worse.

Point out that Epstein's depravity was assisted and enabled by a woman

I often say to my husband "I love you but I * hate Men!"

He completely understands.

Some of the nastiest bullies I have met have been women. Wait til DD comes across some of these. It will change her mind not that men are wonderful but that women can be shtty too.

Well, she has a point.

So you’ve seen 12 times as many shit women as men? 12 times as many women rape men as men rape women? 12 times as many women murder men as men murder women? I think I might need to see a little evidence…

I was sexually assaulted aged 10 and again aged 13 by two different men. When I was assaulted aged 10 he also had his hands round my neck and partially choked me . So I agree with your DD and it didn’t take me to get to adulthood to realise just how vile they can be. I very suprisingly found a man I could love and who is the most gentle kind of person imaginable.

There is just so much more of this happening at every level of society. Most of it is hidden and will remain hidden. Only DH, one of my sisters and therapists know about what I suffered, it has affected my whole life though not diagnosed with MH issues till I was much older when I suffered a huge MH crisis.

Women are not comparable whilst there are some women who are sexual abusers it’s a minority and even then many do it to please a man. Even my lovely gentle DH could hold me down and kill me quite easily as he is so much bigger than me.

Yes! He did. I mean, he later apologised for both of those things, but I think the fact that he did them in the first place is the problem. The apologies were probably just for optics.

And god knows what Barack Obama has got up to behind the scenes. With men (or even women) who have risen to such power, the likelihood of corruption and seedy behaviour is very high. And didn't he rub shoulders with Epstein? Just because we don't know he's done anything, doesn't mean he hasn't.

I'd love to believe Keanu's a decent bloke, though (but as with Noam Chomsky, I'd probably be wrong).

It isn't.

I've seen it happen.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah she’s not wrong is she though.

I think the key word here is power.

My mother is a contrarian - honestly it’s utterly tiring. Can’t have a conversation about anything.

Barack Obama, who said nice things but engaged in multiple military conflicts and furthered wars not solved them? Dalia Lama, as pp says, of whom there is video evidence of him asking a child to suck on his tongue?

I’ll go with Keanu as a good man although don’t know that we can say that for sure. That’s 1 out of 6 men there who are decent! And in your ‘for every bad man there is a good man’ world - that’s still half of all men who are bad! Pretty terrifying statistics.

I agree with you that we need hope and belief for better though. I think that comes with dealing with the mess we are in though, not pretending we aren’t in it.

“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power.”
A Lincoln.

We'd do so well 😄

So do I

No worries, we're good. (Maybe they should get us on the UN to solve pressing world problems and help people come to an understanding LOL :) )

Didn’t the Dalai Lama also say something about how if a woman was to succeed him she would need to be attractive? I mean, don’t worry about being an effective spiritual leader and spokesperson for millions of people - are you fuckable enough to be the next Dalai Lama? That’s the important question.