to think that good skincare and "tweakments" do make a big difference?

I don’t do tweakments and the like, just regular skin care, but I am thin and very toned. It is very very very very important to me to be skinny (it really is impossible to exaggerate how important!), I just don’t feel myself when I’m even slightly above my optimal weight, never mind confident

I don’t care if that makes me shallow or a worshipper of the patriarchy (or whatever bollocks people come out with), being skinny and toned makes me VERY happy.

And you should do what makes you happy in life. 😊

I use a mixture of Korean skincare care. It really depends on your skin type.

I use Anua and House of Joseon plus some products I ordered from Lengbox which is tailored to your skin type. I looked up what would suit my skin and went from there. My skin has improved, it’s clear and has less age marks. I’m really pleased.

Agree with your post. However, if you don't mind me saying, I'd really avoid botox round the mouth. I too experimented and that was my only botox 'fail'. I was literally😏for 4 months. Apparantly its a common issue in this area because of variations in muscle strength the practitioner can't always assess accurately.
A little filler injected deeply does the job by scaffolding the skin and lasts longer too.

A haircut is normal. New clothes are normal. But Botox is injecting bacterium/toxins into your skin to paralyse your muscles and "deform" your appearance! I just don't find them comparable.

I think all the people who say that the people they know who have had botox/fillers are missing the point - I think the sheer number of women who are having tweakments is huge and the ones you notice are usually the ones who are over doing it.

I agree completely that skin care makes a huge difference - and retinol, vitamin C and decent exfoliating products as we age are game changers - and I wish more men would take this on board too. I'm encouraging teenage DS to think about his skincare in the same way that I do, and that DD is starting to. And I've finally got my elderly father using some protective treatments and it's helping!

Botox and fillers are not necessary, but if they make you feel better, go for it. I'm definitely (at 50) considering a few around my marionette lines that I feel have got a lot worse the last year or two and now I'm losing weight, I suspect it will continue to get worse. So perhaps this time next year I'l be in the botox/filler camp! I won't tell anyone though - except my BFF.

What Korean skincare range do you use? It's mentioned twice in this thread. Are Korean skincare products deemed better then UK & US?

I wash my face in the shower in the morning and then moisturise. I'm mid 40s but people often assume I'm mid-30s as my skin is good. I wear make up, but not a lot.

But... I have always worn moisturiser with a sun screen, never used a sun bed, and rarely smoked. My mum lived abroad and sunbathed all the time and her skin is not great!

I guess this is where the divide comes in. I would never judge a person based on what they look like, and I would not be friends with someone who judged me. They're just not my sort of people. In fact, all my friends are the "down to earth" type who would never modify their body as they just don't feel the need. Being happy is far more attractive than some botox. And I guess that comes with being confident and/or having friends who love you for just being you.

I think luck, lifestyle, health, stress and bone structure etc come into it as well. I don’t know many people that get Botox, but the ones I do know don’t look good at all. One has had permanent make up added too- it’s a weird looking combination as she had it done twenty years ago (ish). Don’t live in London and I know these women have it done at local salons they aren’t spending much, perhaps that’s why.

I would never get it done, I’m too scared. Power to anyone that wants too, I don’t care but it’s not for me. I can still recall the real housewives season where Kyle had a freaky eye because of Botox and she has all the money /contacts money can buy.

I wear spf and have since I was a teen, plus Liz Earle cleanser. Not heard of Korean skincare!

I’m 45- happy, healthy and confident with or without Botox BUT I do love three stress once every 6 months. There’s been times I haven’t been able to afford it and it didn’t impact my personality but I just like it.
i also use a lot of skincare… but I eat well and exercise so not sure if that’s why i have good skin. Botox doesn’t make me look younger and that’s not my aim. I very much look my age- however it makes me look fresher and less tired

I think both are true. Yes you are part of contributing to the rise of such things and pressure on women, and yes you should just do your own thing. I think it’s a shame women feel the need to do this but equally I’m happy for you that you have more confidence and feel good.

No. There will always be inequality between women based on how attractive we are considered. Because physically attractive women all other things being equal, are treated better and valued more highly than plainer ones. Refusing to indulge in any measures to increase your own attractiveness will do absolutely nothing to change this on a societal level.
If all women refused to do it, all that would happen is that the pool of women who got better treatment and were more highly valued for their looks would be smaller, as only the naturally young and beautiful would be in it. But it would exist just the same.
Treatments and procedures give women the option to be part of the 'treated better because they're attractive group' for longer, or to access it when their natural looks would not have been enough.
The fact the group exists at all is all sorts of wrong. But we didn't create it and realistically we won't change it. We just choose whether to try and be in it or ignore it. Either way, looks based inequality will carry on.

I agree.

I don't give much of a shit what people do to their own faces.

But I think being slim, wearing clothes that suit you, having good posture and exuding confidence are much more youthful and beautiful than just having nice skin.

I'm always baffled by women who spend tonnes to achieve that ubiquitous, frozen, shiny forehead look but then walk with their shoulder slumped in shit clothes about five stone overweight.

I'm 46 and don't know anyone who has any of this stuff done. I mean as far as I know. I don't take anywhere near that much of my face let alone anyone else's.

There's a couple of school mums I see where it's very obvious they've had lip fillers and look, to me, completely ridiculous. But as to anyone's skincare routine it isn't a subject that has once come up in conversation.

I have no idea if other women my age look noticeably smoother or more glowing or younger than they are or what age I look.

Yes. Its a very unpopular view on here, and for understandable reasons, but skilfully and lightly executed procedures are absolutely game changing when it comes to addressing the signs of aging. Botox can smooth crows feet and 11s, filler in the right places replaces lost fat and subtly lifts skin to the place it was before gravity did its work. The main problem with procedures is when they're not skillfully and lightly executed, and obviously these are the ones people see and form judgement on.
I'm not overly convinced about expensive skincare. I think a routine of moisturising, hydration and sun protection makes a big difference, but its the ingredients, vit C, retinol, hyalaronic acid that do the job, and they can be found in inexpensive products.
Good diet, excercise, fresh air and sleep all make a difference too.

I don't think it makes people look younger necessarily but it does tend to make people look more groomed and healthy looking. So "better", yes.

I would say I don't mind looking my age but I want to look good for my age!

I don’t use expensive skincare but do use retinol, my skin looks great. I also use a collagen wand that makes me glow.

I'm not sure. I've been watching the Supermodels documentary on Apple TV and Christy Turlington - who has had no work done - looks way better than the other models. Granted, she probably uses expensive skincare but has had no tweakments apparently.

I know loads of women who have had botox, some even in their very early thirties. In my opinion the problem is that it ever so slightly changes people's features, in a way that makes it very easy to see who has had it. People end up looking similar somehow, and they still mostly show their age. So it's not something I want to have (for now, anyway!).
Looking good at a certain age is not just about the face. Keeping slim and fit (the hardest part!) is just as important as preventing skin damage with sun cream and not smoking etc. It's possible to look good without having invasive treatments. I find the pressure to inject botox and fillers quite depressing, especially when I see young women fall for it. It's sad to see how they don't realise how beautiful they already are! So yes, I think there are certain beauty trends that definitely need to be resisted.