Hypocrisy in how we frame abuse. UK grooming gangs vs Epstein

OP, I simply think you are wrong. Both situations led to vulnerable girls being groomed. The circumstances in each case are different but relevant.

We should not ignore that the there is a racial element to grooming gangs where white girls are specifically targeted by other cultural groups because they are considered easy, disposable, from a culture that lacks morality and fails to keep its daughters locked up. I think to ignore the culture and religious significance of this targetting is to pretend it doesn't exist. It does. It's a problem that must be addressed.

With Epstein, the problem is not connected to religion and culture but to class and financial status. That is the issue in this scenario and it must be addressed. This is being called out - that some wealthy powerful men think they can do what they like to young vulnerable girls. But maybe you don't feel uncomfortable hearing this, whereas you do feel uncomfortable hearing that some Muslim men think they can do what they like to white girls, because to you that somds like racial prejudice. It's not. It is a fact that is entirely relevant in that particular case.

Of course not all powerful rich men abuse young girls. And of course not all Muslim men abuse young girls. There are far more Muslim men than powerful rich men, so there are far more innocent men who may be judged as potential predators unjustly, and we should bear that in mind and take steps to prevent it happening. But, in the two scenarios you outlined, those that do abuse justify it by hiding behind their wealth and their religion respectively. We need to call them all out on it and not shy away from facts we dislike.

It’s mainly because the stories are different.

When the story was Catholic church abuse, the religion of the perpetrators was a major and widely-discussed factor (we call it ‘Catholic church abuse’), becuase it helps explain what was distinctive about the abuse, why it remained covered up for so long, and what sorts of things might be needed to fix it. Rightly, it was central.

When the story was the Rochdale, and other, grooming gangs, race and religion was ditto, so it was prominent.

With Epstein’s abusive circle, the most distinctive thing is power and wealth: it’s the common factor amongst those implicated, it’s what gave them a sense of impunity, and it’s how Epstein kept his hold on people.

Different stories, so different lenses are relevant.

We could have a national debate about what’s wrong with Jewish culture and the authorities’ attitudes to Jewish sensibilities that it permitted this, but that would seem to miss the target in this case. Do you think?

Extract from BBC article which examined Baroness Casey’s findings:

One key data gap highlighted by the report is on ethnicity, which is described as "appalling" and a "major failing".
It says the ethnicity of perpetrators is "shied away from" and still not recorded in two-thirds of cases, meaning it is not possible to draw conclusions at a national level.
However, the report says there is enough evidence from police data in three areas - Greater Manchester, South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire - to show "disproportionate numbers of men from Asian ethnic backgrounds amongst suspects for group-based child sexual exploitation".
It adds that the significant number of perpetrators of Asian ethnicity identified in local reviews and high-profile prosecutions across the country also warrants further examination.
The report says more effort is needed to explore why it appears perpetrators of Asian and Pakistani ethnicity are disproportionately represented in some areas.
In response, the government has said it will make it a formal requirement to collect both ethnicity and nationality data for all cases of child sexual abuse and exploitation, as well as commission new research into the cultural and social drivers of the issue.
The review also notes a significant proportion of live cases appear to involve suspects who are non-UK nationals or claiming asylum in the UK.
The government said it was bringing forward changes so anyone convicted of sexual offences would have their asylum claim rejected and be denied refugee status.

Its clear we shy away from Race in grooming enquiries/even recording crime stats - Why?

When it is about male violence against women and girls issues like race, class, jobs, religion etc etc are all irrelevant. The problem is men, masculinity if you like. All religions were constructed by men to privilege men,just as Law, policing, and government has been set up by men for men. There is no country in which women are absolutely equal to men. Certainly things are worse for women in some countries, some religions, some legal systems, but just check the statistics on femicide, child sexual abuse and domestic violence in a country like the UK and it is obvious that even in the West women are not even close to equality.

I see what you're saying but don't think I agree that the Epstein abuse has been reported as 'one monstrous individual' - it's been really clear that this is part of a network of people who have abused underage girls.

The media might not be making it about 'white men exploiting girls' but they are making it about 'super rich men (and women) exploiting girls'

Any man abusing children needs to be locked up. Prince Andrew and anyone else British implicated in Epstein should be banned from the USA and any other country with sense should follow suit.

If a Brit paedo is in Spain, then Spain would be crazy not to return them to us.

If American peados are here deport them to the USA for them to deal with. If that means a 99 year sentence in an awful jail then so be it. If they want Prince Andrew then fly him there at tax payer expense. If his wife knew and the USA want to speak to her then send her there with him.

I think the same about the rape gangs - deport anyone who has a second passport. Lock up anyone who was part of it (or the cover up) regardless of who they are. If that’s MPs and police officers I’m okay with that. If it’s family members providing alibis I’m okay with that too.

I have no sympathy for any sex offender. Deport anyone we can to minimise the risk to my children and their friends.

If the state won’t help prosecute crowd fund for private prosecutions.

I think the inconsistency lies in everyday average people are happy to discuss Epstein and how atrocious it is. They are worried about discussing rape gangs for fear of being accused of racism. All these men need to be in prison for a very long time.