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Hypocrisy in how we frame abuse. UK grooming gangs vs Epstein

156 replies

Bowcup · 02/02/2026 09:53

I’m struggling with the inconsistency in how these cases are discussed.

Epstein wasn’t a one-off predator. It was a vast, organised trafficking operation that ran for years, across multiple locations, with dozens (if not hundreds) of victims, recruiters, enablers, and powerful men in the background.

And the girls he targeted weren’t random.

They were overwhelmingly:

  • white
  • working-class
  • often from care, unstable homes, or financial hardship
  • chosen precisely because they were unlikely to be believed or protected

That victim profile is identical to what we hear about in UK grooming cases.

Yet the framing couldn’t be more different.

UK grooming gangs → race, culture, religion endlessly foregrounded
Epstein → “elite abuse of power”, “institutional failure”, “one monstrous individual”

What makes this harder to swallow is that most sexual exploitation in the UK is not carried out by minority groups at all.

According to ONS data and multiple serious case reviews, the majority of perpetrators of group-based child sexual exploitation are white British men. That includes street grooming, online grooming, and organised exploitation. But those cases rarely become cultural flashpoints.

So why is it that:

  • when offenders are from a minority background, it’s treated as a racial or cultural problem
  • but when offenders are white, wealthy, or powerful, it’s treated as an individual moral failing?

Why wasn’t Epstein discussed as:

“White men exploiting vulnerable white girls is a systemic problem”?

Why didn’t we have wall-to-wall discussion about class, care leavers, and the disposability of poor girls?

It feels like race becomes the story when it’s available as an explanation, and disappears when it would force us to look at who actually holds power.

I’m not denying patterns matter. They do.
But if we’re serious about safeguarding, we can’t selectively apply that logic.

Because right now it looks less like protecting girls and more like choosing who we’re comfortable blaming.

OP posts:
TheWildEyeBoyfromafreecloud · 02/02/2026 18:12

@Bowcup

Re fewer instances of minority children in care that's a whole other Novel to write.

  1. some minorities promote cousin marriage which can lead to women feeling more trapped into a family system with related aunts and uncles and grandparents where they can't say no ,escape or have a proper free life and voice.
  2. abuse within some minority community is hidden because of aforesaid tight inter family networks...aand an heavy onus on women being to blame for rape and any sexual abuse from men !
  3. some minority have an elder or community speaker who speaks to police and others on behalf of their community many girls of course who can't speak English . A girl abused ran away and was returned to the community whose speaker said she was x y and z and she was swallowed up back into this community.

We are supposed to be an open transparent liberal country where children have rights , we all have rights.

Abd yet there is a two tier system in play that what a white girl can expect is different to those living in more traditional style minorities.

hazelnutvanillalatte · 02/02/2026 18:01

The grooming gang perpetrators have SPECIFICALLY SAID that they target victims by race and ethnicity as they are considered less valuable and less moral. They are a cultural issue, and that's why they are reported as a cultural issue

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 18:00

Meadowfinch · 02/02/2026 15:47

OP, the Epstein case is in the USA, not under British jurisdiction, so what we think or how we react to it, is pretty much irrelevant. We have no say.

Comparing the two is a bit pointless

Mostly but not entirely.

Firstly, some of the alleged crimes were UK.

Even for others, the UK asserts international juridiction for serious sexual crimes especially against children. Straightforwardly for UK residents who offend overseas (even if the act would not have been illegal in that location), and through a slightly more stringent process for non-UK residents too if they come to the UK.

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 17:30

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 16:17

True.
It's just a shame that the debate has been distorted by bad actors focusing on Muslims and only Muslims- in bad faith- so that it's a temptation to go the other way and counter their narrative.

If Reform and their flunkeys really cared about "are wimmin and girls" they'd shut the fuck up and allow serious, police and community led efforts to counter the problem to take place without being turned into a hate filled circus.

Sort of, but there is another danger of 'antibody repelling' the criticism for the same tribal reasons in reverse.

e.g. if Protestant unionists (even extreme protestant unionists) had been the main ones calling out Catholic church abuse, that was still not a reason for the church to hide it or for others to avoid confronting the Catholic connection.

I think also that often people in these institutions lean too hard on the idea that others are criticising in bad faith, because (perhaps entirely subconsciously) it provides a justification for the comfortable preference to cover up. "This is shameful and embarassing, and will create a lot of work for me" is not a rationale that sounds honourable (to oneself, to others). "I must protect the good work of the church from those wish harm on it", "I must protect community relations from the bigoted right", etc. sounds much better.

5MinuteArgument · 02/02/2026 17:12

Toothfairy89 · 02/02/2026 13:20

It definitely played a part

But OPs point is in the grooming gangs it was "fear of racism" in Epstein it was "power and wealth". There's always a reason why men get away with it

Actually in both cases (and generally all exploitation/grooming), it was because the victims were easily accessibility and not believable. A huge element in both cases is the police do not believe that type if victim. It's easy for people say "fear of racism" rather than "I considered a 14yo girl a slut and a prostitute".

But many people involved in the cover up of the grooming gangs were social workers, local councillors, Labour politicians etc. I think the fear of being accused of racism WAS the main factor that stopped them tackling it, rather than that they saw the girls as 'white trash'.

I've worked in the public sector and I've seen this mindset at first hand.

Everanewbie · 02/02/2026 16:22

The Epstein scandal is horrendous, and despite not being under our jurisdiction, we need to get to the bottom of who was involved and to what extent, and what they knew. And if the law allows, we should throw the book at them. And if not, the information needs to be out there for the public to know.

But none of this takes away the relevance of understanding why the rape gangs happened, are happening, and were not properly investigated, prosecuted, and the women and girls involved protected. Either denying the role of race and culture in committing these offences and failure to pay them proper attention or trying to draw equivalences with other outrages in an effort to distract and minimise is an insult to the victims and the general public.

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 16:17

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 16:04

I'm going to 'and" you as well Grin

When we look at confronting power structures we need to be aware of both overestimating in the case of a structure we don't like, and underestimating in the converse. Just because I hate the Church and have lots of Muslim frie ds, I should treat both structures as problematic.

True.
It's just a shame that the debate has been distorted by bad actors focusing on Muslims and only Muslims- in bad faith- so that it's a temptation to go the other way and counter their narrative.

If Reform and their flunkeys really cared about "are wimmin and girls" they'd shut the fuck up and allow serious, police and community led efforts to counter the problem to take place without being turned into a hate filled circus.

Treacling · 02/02/2026 16:11

For anyone reading this who is interested the next stage of the crowd funded rape gang inquiry starts today. Here’s a link. I am glad an MP has finally done something to try and get justice for the girls. I am unsure if they are crowdfunding for the private prosecutions but I’m happy to chip in if anyone knows of a crowd funder.

https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2018283394157683139/mediaViewer?currentTweet=2018283394157683139&currentTweetUser=RupertLowe10

Sikh girls had the K2K project - yes they were targeted. One was rescued in Hounslow last month by a large group of Sikhs.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 16:04

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:25

I agree fully. So my next bit is an 'and' not a 'but'.

I think that model is far too broad alone to address these problems. Talk about and confront the problem with the Catholic church, with celebrity culture and media institutions, with Mirpuri Muslim culture, with ultra-rich and powerful men, etc. etc. etc. Add as many things as you want to that list, but I don't think treating them as distractions is helpful. Too often I think it's a cover for squeamishness. The same squeamishness that protected each of those abuses from scrutiny for far too long.

Edited

I'm going to 'and" you as well Grin

When we look at confronting power structures we need to be aware of both overestimating in the case of a structure we don't like, and underestimating in the converse. Just because I hate the Church and have lots of Muslim frie ds, I should treat both structures as problematic.

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 16:00

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

Actually, funnily enough a rich guy called Mohammed did do similar- remember Mohammed Al- Fayed? And funnily enough I don't remember the media putting a racialised slant on it.

I don't know what I'm getting at here myself, BTW. Just comparing and contrasting historical sex abuse scandals I guess. Maybe al- Fayed was considered to be the "right" kind of Muslim due to his immense wealth and power and Royal Family links?

Trock · 02/02/2026 15:54

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

It’s not mentioned because it’s not relevant. Firstly I don’t think either of them were actually religious (so there was no ‘faith’ at play). Secondly, the Epstein trafficking networks involved a range of people of different religions/ethnicities. The common factor was wealth and power, not religion/ethnicity.

Meadowfinch · 02/02/2026 15:47

OP, the Epstein case is in the USA, not under British jurisdiction, so what we think or how we react to it, is pretty much irrelevant. We have no say.

Comparing the two is a bit pointless

aModernClassic · 02/02/2026 15:44

Bowcup · 02/02/2026 13:03

I want to add one more thing, because I think this is where some of the disconnect is.

I do not think culture or religion explains sexual abuse. It happens everywhere. Men abuse power wherever they have access to vulnerable girls and expect impunity.

The Catholic abuse scandal wasn’t about “Catholic culture” in some abstract sense. It was about priests having access to children and an institutional cover-up that went right up to the Vatican. Power, access, denial.

The UK grooming gangs were also not a Muslim network. There was no religious hierarchy, no organised faith structure directing abuse. These were criminal networks of men exploiting vulnerable girls, enabled by authorities failing to act.

Where I do see hypocrisy is in how the press chooses to frame these stories.

When abuse involves minority perpetrators, press reporting quickly centres race, culture and religion. When abuse involves white or elite perpetrators, the framing shifts to power, wealth, corruption and institutional failure.

Those are not neutral choices. They shape how the public understands the problem.

What gets lost in both cases is the same thing: access to girls.

In the UK, the girls most exposed were poor, often in care or unstable housing. That matters. It is also relevant that some minority communities have lower rates of children entering care, often because wider family networks step in. That is a protective factor. Fewer girls in care means fewer girls exposed in those settings.

That does not make abuse cultural. It makes it opportunistic.

My issue is not with acknowledging facts. It is with selective storytelling.

Why does press coverage so often turn one set of cases into a debate about culture, but another into a debate about power, when the victims are the same type of girls and the institutional failures are so similar?

Until we are willing to talk honestly about why girls in care and working-class girls are so accessible and so disposable, I don’t think we are actually addressing safeguarding. We are just arguing about which lens feels more comfortable.

But what about the Sikh girls? I don’t think there’s many of them in care home either, but they were targeted and raped by the predominantly Muslim rape/grooming gangs.

SidekickSylvia · 02/02/2026 15:43

The Asian grooming gangs specifically targeted young girls outside of their own race and religion, believing them to be inferior. So there was racism in addition to the torture, rape, trafficking and other sexual abuse.

aModernClassic · 02/02/2026 15:33

Everanewbie · 02/02/2026 11:52

Interestingly, and shockingly, victims of rape gangs were often labelled by police and social services were often labelled as sex workers.

I am sick of the whataboutery with the rape gang scandal.

This!

ktopfwcv · 02/02/2026 15:30

Quite right OP. White privilege strikes again.

Simplestars · 02/02/2026 15:29

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

💯 agree.

Dutchhouse14 · 02/02/2026 15:27

Maybe instead of concentratiing the perpetrators of abuse we should think about who they target as their victims.
Due to polictical correctness the authorities were frightened to say who the abusers in were rotherham, thats not right.
We need to shine a light on whoever is abusing girls and women, regardless of race, religion, power or wealth

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:25

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 15:19

Yes, the specific power structures where men have more absolute power and women have less. The answer isn't despair, the answer is empowering women.

I agree fully. So my next bit is an 'and' not a 'but'.

I think that model is far too broad alone to address these problems. Talk about and confront the problem with the Catholic church, with celebrity culture and media institutions, with Mirpuri Muslim culture, with ultra-rich and powerful men, etc. etc. etc. Add as many things as you want to that list, but I don't think treating them as distractions is helpful. Too often I think it's a cover for squeamishness. The same squeamishness that protected each of those abuses from scrutiny for far too long.

EasternStandard · 02/02/2026 15:22

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

Edited

True. Look at the structures which enable it and why.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 15:19

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

Edited

Yes, the specific power structures where men have more absolute power and women have less. The answer isn't despair, the answer is empowering women.

Tonissister · 02/02/2026 15:19

Ihatethistimeline · 02/02/2026 11:03

With the latest Epstein data release - there is talk from Epstein, Maxwell and others around Jewish supremacy, comments that the higher percentage of Ashkenazi blood you have makes you smarter than others, slurs against ‘goyim’ aka white people and slurs against black people. So when you see the girls abused, there is a class and race angle.

That is interesting. But that view was not shared by the white, Christian abusers he sent the girls to 'party' with. US presidents, techbros and UK royalty aren't all Jewish and they were instrumental in the abuse, so the element of one set thinking another set is easy prey was far more to do with money and power than religion and race in this instance.

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 02/02/2026 15:11

For the Epsteins and Weinsteins of this world, their Jewish faith is never mentioned by the press. If a rich guy called Mohammed had done what Epstein had done, his faith or culture would have been pivotal to the reporting.

GeneralPeter · 02/02/2026 15:08

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/02/2026 14:46

This is a male violence issue.

There are a significant proportion of men who want to abuse women and girls. All the structures that allow them, whether that's religion (Catholic Church), culture (grooming gangs), money (Epstein), power (Weinstein) or force (basically every army) the point is the same. Make male loyalty to the group, and women's powerlessness to the group, very high. The stronger and more powerful the group, and the weaker women are, the better.

The antidote is women's power. Would there be mass exploitation of women by NGO staff if all women were on the ground? No. Would there be child marriage in the US if women had the power and money? No.

So to answer your question OP, race and culture are distractions, made for us to see it as a pattern it isn't. If only we control Asian men, it wouldn't happen. No, educate, empower and listen to women and girls. Everywhere.

It’s definitely a male violence problem.

But I don’t see those other things as ‘distractions’ (at least, I don’t think we can take that as our blanket view).

Specific institutions are worse, specific cultures are worse, specific armies are worse, specific setups, laws, policies, etc etc. all matter. The alternative is a counsel of despair that nothing can be changed as it’s all just men and men aren’t going anywhere.

If we can name a specific sex (which obviously we must), then we should be happy to name the specific other things.

ReadingCrimeFiction · 02/02/2026 14:49

crackofdoom · 02/02/2026 13:14

Hmmmm....not sure about that. Were Tim Westwood's victims not overwhelmingly very young and black? Yet I've never heard race being mentioned in that case.

I don't know anything about Tim Westwood I'm afraid so I can't comment. My comment was purely Epstein vs Rochdale. I am certain that yes, there are abuse cases with race as a factor that isn't discussed, I'm juts not sure that the Epstein hideousness, and all those hideous men (yes, many of them white powerful men) is a specific race issue.