Vegan baby

I'm sorry if I am repeating 100 others as the thread is too long to read all the posts (but I have read all of OPs posts). A vegan mum/vegan baby MUST supplement B12. There is no adequate natural source of B12 for a vegan. It must be a supplement or artificially fortified food. It is probably worth getting specialist medical advice on how to do this appropriately. Without B12 the child will develop nerve issues and cognitive impairment/learning disability amongst other things.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12

Soy contains an excess of oestrogen, so not always a great choice for children.

I think that, as all animals do, the needs of my child come first. That's how the species survives.

Whether we deserve to survive as a species is another issue, but as parents we should be giving our children the best shot at being healthy and strong. Which is what animals other than humans do for theirs. Lions don't question whether they should source alternative protein for their young, they feed what they need.

No judgment here of vegans, I am vegetarian. But just wanted to share that my friend had to swap her child from vegan to vegetarian/pescatarian (the kid decided they want to eat fish fingers!) as the child wasnt growing well and it seemed to be linked. They raised their other two children vegetarian as a result.

Isn't it called dairy because it's the building cows go to get milked? Therefore milk and all products made from milk are traditionally called dairy but women don't go to a building to get milked so you can't call breast milk dairy.

I don’t think it’s nutritionally ideal

I’m in “they can make their own decisions when old enough ” camp.

DS announced he wanted to be vegetarian aged 5 and he’s been supported in that choice.

That's what I said?

I don't think you should choose animal abuse and killing on behalf of your child but each to their own. All you're really saying is that you are making a more conventional choice.
Supplementation is extremely easy. Veg 1 from vegan society. fortified soy milk provides about the same calcium as dairy milk (other milks less so.) Keep a careful eye on iron as all parents should.

Human milk is vegan because it is not an animal product. Ie of another animal! Mammals feed their young via lactation.

Consuming the product of another animal is not vegan. Consuming the product of your own lactating mother is vegan ie as nature intended.

No, that's plant-based. Veganism is an ethical system of minimal harm.

And how does the cow consent to its milk being given to a baby not its own, just out of interest?

Of course human milk is vegan, the human is willingly giving it. @ChangePrivacyQuestion you are right that supplementation is needed, and utterly wrong about that.
OP, I have a very healthy vegan from birth ten year old and three year old, both tall, sturdy smart lads. This is a very useful document designed for childcare settings in UK. https://www.justonenorfolk.nhs.uk/media/ocagvmhe/eating-well-vegans-web-compressed.pdf

That's not true though? From what I've read, veganism is literally just 'abstaining from the use of animal products and the consumption of animal source foods'. Sometimes it's done for health, and sometimes for ethical reasons.

It's interesting to know though, that ethical veganism isn't actually against the consumption or use of animal products.

My logic on this says no because vegans choose not to eat animal products (for ethical or just as a choice) which would include cows milk. Therefore cows milk is not vegan and humans milk is vegan (because that is what we are meant to do) ie nurse our young.

Is this a direct reply to me or are you just generally mad that people disagree with you?

Why on earth did you ask then? You’re very sure you’re making the right decision. Not saying I disagree with that decision, but I don’t understand why posters start threads asking if they’re being unreasonable, then declare very stridently that they definitely aren’t. What a waste of time. Surely you must have avocado to mash?

Does that extend to what a baby needs to eat though?

I know what I need to eat but that's different to what a child needs. So the careful planning of meals doubles.

Good point

I think it's entirely possible but you would have to learn a lot about nutrition and really be careful to make sure baby is getting everything they need.

It would need more effort and planning in terms of food prep etc.

Babies need a higher proportion of some nutrients than adults as they are growing so much. Their bodies can't cope as well as an adult body with a vegan diet.

So yes you can do it but you do need to do some research first.

I think the takeaway here is to consult a paediatric nutritionist to ensure you do it correctly OP. Raising a child vegan from birth is completely different from going vegan as an adult, as you have to ensure you provide all the necessary nutrients a developing body and brain needs, and what foods to avoid (eg soya milk). You also have to be prepared to adapt if your baby has intolerances or is fussy with food.

Are all vegans vegans for ethical reasons? I didn’t think so.

Veganism is a belief system not a diet. 'Vegan diet' is just a quick way of saying 'eat in a way that aligns with the ethics of veganism' so not exploiting animals.
So actually in your earlier example of road kill, I would argue that that is within the ethics of veganism.
I say that 'I'm vegan' but really I mean I eat no meat fish eggs or dairy. I do this because I believe its healthier. The ethical side is bonus, but i cant say i dont exploit animals in other ways (i have pet cats, ive ridden a horse). So arguably your road kill eating uncle could be more vegan than me.

Veganism is a belief system not a diet. 'Vegan diet' is just a quick way of saying 'eat in a way that aligns with the ethics of veganism' so not exploiting animals.
So actually in your earlier example of road kill, I would argue that that is within the ethics of veganism.
I say that 'I'm vegan' but really I mean I eat no meat fish eggs or dairy. I do this because I believe its healthier. The ethical side is bonus, but i cant say i dont exploit animals in other ways (i have pet cats, ive ridden a horse). So arguably your road kill eating uncle could be more vegan than me.

That's only true for ethical vegans, though. Some people are vegan for health reasons, and the ethics don't really come into it so much.

The actual definition of veganism is "abstaining from the use of animal products and the consumption of animal source foods" - the philosophy is optional.

Gosh I didn’t even think of nursery when I made my previous comment. The vegetarian options at some nurseries are absolutely dire either completely just using quorn/processed meat replacements or seeming totally inadequate for the amount of calories they need so choose a placement carefully or one where you can provide your own meals (though most won’t warm food up).

the difference between an adult vegan diet and that for a child is that the child needs loads more fat and protein for the sheer amount of growth and carbs for daily energy. A diet of fruit and veg and grains etc need a hefty amount of oil, coconut cream, nut butters, avocado etc for it to be calorie dense enough.

There’s guidance on which alternative milks to use because almond milk is too low in fat and calories and therefore oat milk is normally recommended as it’s higher fat and calories (by virtue of added oil).

letting baby eat what you eat may not be sufficiently calorie dense for them particularly when they only eat such small portions.

vegan isn’t really a diet composition thing, it’s a philosophy of not exploiting animals. So your own human milk willingly given is fine.