Vegan baby

Yes 🙄

‘Exploitative’ definition: making use of a situation or treating others unfairly in order to gain an advantage or benefit.

If you give an animal food, medical care and a warm shed in exchange for their excess milk - who’s gaining the advantage or benefit?

The word 'Dairy' means bovine milk my definition. It originates from the Middle English deierie or daierie (circa 1300), which meant a dairy farm or building for making butter and cheese. Goats milk is now also classed as dairy for these reasons, however with the exception of a few sick fucks people, we do not do this with human milk.

Human milk is not dairy.

It would be cruel not to milk the goat though. But like cows if they aren't put into calve they will stop producing milk but then people will moan no beef cattle,
Animals can't win either way as they are controlled by another animal - humans.

Definitely consult a dietician to get factual advice but I would strongly consider the potential consequences of not introducing your baby to all the allergens at the optimum time for introduction. You might think it doesn't matter as they won't eat those foods anyway as they're vegan but obviously they might change their mind later but also the risk of accidental consumption through cross contamination or even airborne allergies. You could minimise this risk by waiting a couple of years before switching to a vegan diet.

Do what feels right for YOU and YOUR baby.
My brood were raised as veggie until they were two then went over to vegan. Strapping great lads - it's like having my own personal minders when we all go out together.😀
Unless I was advised otherwise by an, up to date with information, health professional I generally ignored advice of others about diet with a smile and " I'll think about that." Then changed the subject.

@Expecteddeclathon I’m also interested as to the response you’ve had from your baby’s future childcare provider about being vegan?

It’s pathetic either way.

I can hand on heart say I’ve never bothered looking at anyone’s food or cared at all.

They could be having a can of Stella and ten Marlboro lights for lunch and it wouldn’t matter to me.

It’s just people with nothing better to do than bitch about the contents of someone’s lunch box.

It’s often dressed up as faux concern for someone else’s health too. I don’t give a shit if someone else or their children may be at risk of being B12 deficient. Why should I care? literally couldn’t muster a fuck, and I am sure that they are more than capable of looking after their own health IF they want to.

I’m not clear how replacing fully biodegradable products like down, leather, silk, wool with plastic is for the benefit of the environment.

Does that mean that it’s ok for a vegan to eat eggs from pet hens? If they are unfertilised, they will just go to waste. It could be a nutritional option for OPs baby?

@Expecteddeclathon, how do you feel about introducing non-vegan allergens to your baby, which is in their best interests?

Honey
shellfish
eggs
dairy

and more…

Meat is the 'norm' for humans because we have evolved to be omnivores. Totally vegan diets are not natural for us.
It is difficult to get enough iron and vitamin B12 in a totally vegan diet, and resulting deficiencies have more consequence in a rapidly growing young child.

How can gathering of someones milk be not exploitative? Its not like the goat is handing it over, is it.

I think the confusion is coming from people saying ethical products are fine in a vegan diet (which I understand) and can be classed as vegan products themselves (which I don’t). For example breastmilk and ethically sourced eggs are vegan according to a pp.

I completely understand how vegans are okay with them, but wouldn’t define either as bring vegan products strictly speaking as they are animal based iyswim.

So the definition of vegan being used does vary I think, and that’s caused confusion. Unnecessary for the purposes of this thread really as everyone would agree breastmilk from mother to child is ethically fine.
(Guessing at least some of the wet-nurses of the past were exploited though.)

A baby being a vegan is ridiculous but then no one likes vegans anyway.

Surely it’s their choice to make once they understand what meat is? I was vegetarian from 10 but I really really wish that I hadn’t ever been fed meat as a child.

Does it make much difference at six months?

Granted it's been a while since I weaned a baby but doesn't it all start out fairly vegan friendly? Sweet potato or carrot mashed with milk (OP can use breast milk as you often do anyway). You aren't giving them a steak straight off.

She's still going to breastfeed so it's not really different to any other baby at this stage or what has sustained OP's baby to this stage.

It will be sufficiently replacing dairy once breast feeding stops and as the child moves onto a wider range of food that might need more careful management.

Thank you, that helps. I was wondering about OPs standard about avoiding animal exploitation implying if a foodstuff or product is gathered in a non exploitative way it’s ok for vegans? How do by-products like wool (often gathered for animal health) or sheepskin fit into the whole picture?

It does sound like from previous posts it is ok to eat accidentally killed animals or presumably animals that have died of old age?

Yeah I bet they do. Buckle up - you are in for a decade or so of this.

Ignore the nonsense on breast milk not being vegan - people are either stupid or GFs when they insist on this nonsense.

Unless you were raised vegan yourself take advice from reputable organisations such as the Vegetarian and Vegan societies who have a lot of useful information on actual nutrition. Ignore Social Media “nutritionists” unless they are also accredited clinical dieticians working in practice.

I’m vegetarian who happens to eat mostly vegan as are all my now adult DC. I had years of this nonsense when they were small, I ignored them and left them to their chicken nuggets or performance casseroles-from-scratch. I did check out the latest food and nutrition guidelines for children and took care to meet them - much as you should whatever diet you follow.

I would say I treated it with a light hand as they were growing up. If they picked up the proverbial ham sandwich triangle at a class party I made no fuss about it, I expected them to want to experiment as they grew older - I avoided make a “thing” of it, knowing they would be surrounded by the kind of nonsense on this thread throughout life.

As adults all have chosen to eat the same way, all are disgustingly healthy and since at 5’11” I’m the family short arse their growth is decidedly healthy as well.

I have no problem with vegan but I think you need advice from a trained nutritionist not an internet forum. My worries are how strict you are and how this might affect your child later?

I have a close vegan friend who is very strict. She is a nightmare to feed because nothing can be cooked or stored in anything that has been used for non vegan foodstuffs, nor can it be contaminated by being touched non vegan foods ie sandwiches served on same plate.

If OP, you are like this I can see it causing real problems for your child socially. For example I didn't invite my friend to my Christmas gathering because I just didn't have the time or energy to follow all her rules and I can see parents of your childs' friends being the same. Yes you can give your child food in a lunch box but this will make your child stand out something most children hate and what if you are not present? Would you expect other parents to police your child's choices?

No, dairy farming refers to the farming of dairy ie cows milk or goat or sheep in farming terms. We are not talking about farming here. We are talking about human milk which is biologically dairy.

Milk is dairy just by definition.

Obviously human breast milk is made for babies so its ok in vast majority of cases but cows/sheep/goat/whatever milk is not made for human babies.

Is it 'of course'?

Embarking on any restrictive eating without medical need, which results in the need for supplementation (OP wont be able to meet her child's needs without that) seems foolhardy and unnecessary to me.

Why would you introduce something that cannot by its nature for that age child fulfill nutrient need without supplementation and fortification?

Genuine question (prompted by a comment from a vegan friend), why would vegans rather use plastic goods - ‘vegan leather’, plastic fibre instead of down filled coats, acrylic or polyester instead of wool etc if the belief system is mean to be environmentally friendly? The plastic alternatives don’t last as long and are not repairable either.

I'm in agreement of course nobody should be commenting on the food choices of others, absolutely. I wish everyone thought that way. The number of times someone has said something nasty about what I'm eating because it's vegan is hard to count. Tends to be along the lines of 'euuuuurgh you'd never catch me eating that rabbit food, give me a good bacon sarnie' or 'eurgh who knows what on earth is in that, vegan bacon!? What next!!!???' Thanks Bob, nobody asked your thoughts.

I've heard people use the term plant-based instead of vegan.

Vegans don't use or eat animal products, which like you say include eschewing leather, fur, feathers, silk, as well as the more obvious things like meat, honey, fish, dairy and eggs.

Plenty of people aren't vegan but would describe themselves as plant-based, in that they largely avoid animal products, but not strictly. Someone plant-based might get a vegan burger but not be that bothered checking their new belt isn't leather. They might usually avoid dairy, but on holiday they really fancy an ice cream and do it.

The definition of vegan is very clear, but the increasing numbers of people who are plant-based can end up muddying the waters a bit for people who aren't sure what veganism is. I know I've been places before where they've said something is vegan, the ingredients turn out to have honey in, and they've been shocked because apparently they've had vegans before with no issues with honey so they assumed honey was fine. Those people aren't vegan, regardless of calling themselves vegan. If you consume or use animal products you're not vegan. It's a bit like calling yourself vegetarian and eating fish, you can give yourself any name you like, nobody can stop you. Doesn't make it accurate.