Do friends of rich people have no shame?

I think we are all trying to cross reference our definition of friendship with what has happened here. When they call each other friends, it’s not the same sort of relationship we would have with our friends (no matter how wealthy).

I think that wealth has little to do with it and it’s more about power and class and perhaps fame. I know a lot of very wealthy people who do not behave like this at all. It seems it’s the mix of wealth without work (privelege) and then scoundrels like Epstein is just a perfect recipe for this sordid tale.

The freely asking for money suggests to me that he was in effect their banker. That they had placed investments with him, and it was quicker and easier to get their money out from him than from a conventional bank. Of course he would be free with the amounts handed out, making it very easy for them and luring them in.

I'm surprised that none of them questioned his background. Or maybe they had, and decided it was better to let sleeping dogs lie than prompt proper investigations. That would be a motivation for them to ask for money frequently, to get their assets out as soon as appeared reasonably 'normat', in case it all collapsed.

But the monarchy doesn’t have any hard power. Personally I see them as a bit of a brake on the potential totalitarianism of a head of state that has real, actual power. That scares me far more. Trump, anyone?

I think it's weird too OP. I have some very wealthy friends and I would never tap them up for a few grand! That's not what friendship is based on...

I totally agree they they would have seen the girls as “other” non people. Barely human unlike their own dds.

It’s why I instinctively am against a monarchy. It’s clearly corrupting to give individual people power. See also R Kelly and P Diddy. Power corrupts. Why democracy and the rule of law are so very precious.

Reading about the Epstein files, the first thing that struck me was the awful photo of Andrew kneeling over what looks like a very young woman, looking extremely pervy.

That photo of Andrew is the stuff of nightmares. The demonic eyes, the devil poised over a slight girl, it's truly horrific.

The kneeling over the woman photo looked a bit pervy, but we know nothing about the age of the woman, or how she felt about any of it.

These kinds of people are despicable enough able to be able to compartmentalise their own daughters as princesses who are better than the girls they would have dismissed as working class sluts who would never amount to anything anyway. In their perverted minds, there would have been no comparison between their young daughters and these poor young abused girls.

I've always assumed that photo was an insurance, handy little item to have in the back pocket for a rainy day.

It's a 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours' situation. These people, like Sarah wanted money, and Epstein wanted power and connections. It's a trade-off. If Epstein filmed/took photos of these people, he had the power, to make them provide what he wanted.

This. What kind of people invite paedophiles to their daughter’s birthday party, or share photos of them. If I was the parent of a friend of their daughters, I’d be livid at the risk they put my child at. They really are despicable.

Well, there's friends and there's "friends", right? Seems like all Epstein's relationships were transactional - he wanted people who could do something for him and he was willing to do what it would take to keep them onside, and perhaps give him power over them. I don't suppose he palled up with either for Andrew or Fergie because he was so drawn to their brains, wit, charm and sparkling personalities. But they were both probably too dim to see that. Or maybe not, in her case. Maybe she understood it perfectly - access to the royals, for a price.

"Surely if you're friends with a rich person, you're very careful not to mention financial needs so they don't think you're only after their cash? Let alone actually ask for handouts!"

I think with Epstein this was entirely the point - he WANTED these people to ask him for money - in return they felt a "friendship" to him & were beholden to him.
Of course there were the "extras" Epstein offered his "friends" too - and there he cemented his circle of power & influence over powerful people. Sex & ££.

What I find utterly cringe & shameless is rich successful people asking for relatively small sums such as $10K - using him as an overdraft.

cringe cringe cringe.

The picture of Andrew & the young woman on the floor was horrifying. She looks very stiff - not at all relaxed. Why would anyone take a photo like that?

This has probably already been said but I’m currently reading “Entitled” about the Yorks and Sarah Ferguson had constant money worries due to her greed and waste and, yes, she was always asking rich friends and acquaintances, including Epstein for money to pay her rent and debts. No shame apparently.

I'd bet my house that the King only acted when he did because he knew this was coming out. Are we really supposed to believe the senior royals had no knowledge of what Andrew was up to? They're all complicit.

Yes, I watched the Ghislaine Maxwell documentary that recently aired (would recommend) and came to the conclusion that an element that hasn't been discussed so much is class.

People are all "How could she, a woman, do that to girls?", but I think that it's simply that her first loyalty was to her class, rather than her sex. Rich people have always exploited and dehumanised poor people- usually for their labour, but there has been plenty of sexual exploitation down the centuries too.

It was just bad luck for Epstein, Maxwell, AMW etc that social attitudes changed during a period that they were at it.

Well it makes me wonder what Epstein was getting out of it in return. I assume it was more than silence about his disgusting activities…

yes please!

It's not the biggest issue in this story but more detail on her behaviour that day would be very interesting...

This is beside the point but I don’t think the queen did believe she was anointed by God. I think, based on the various analyses of her rule and character, that she had lifelong impostor syndrome as she was acutely aware that she was only monarch because of the abdication crisis. This drove her dedication to the role and always wanting to do the right thing. Andrew though is a different creature. Arrogance and entitlement off the charts!

Add to this multiple sources suggesting Epstein was state-sponsored ie a Russian or mossad asset. So Epstein would actively encourage people to compromise themselves so his paymasters could control them - a classic ‘honey-trap’.

I think that in these particular cases these people have no shame. Andrew and Fergie have been known to be venal and grasping for decades. That's not a surprise. Mandelson has had the reputation for being bedazzled by billionaires - which basically means he was known to be susceptible to wanting to be like them- approximate their riches. How else can he achieve it unless by his own work (as a paid for political commentator- not enough riches) or being bribed. Doing political favours for cash is corruption.

Epstein was building up blackmail possibilities for (to him) pennies.

Within this vile cess pit I do have one very shallow take, in the photos I have seen so far Epsteins decor is absolute crap.

I don't think the mega rich think about money this way. It's mere conversation to them.

But they are after cash…