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To have lost faith in men

284 replies

nondrinker1985 · 01/02/2026 19:20

As a result of all the Epstein stuff. Having been a victim of a sexual assault as a young child then in my teens and twenties I had a sense of what men were like but my DH is a good man.

Literally everyone is involved in this Epstein stuff- anyone with power. So this makes them exploit young women? It’s sickening - it’s heartbreaking for the young girls who are victims of these men.

OP posts:
MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend · 02/02/2026 15:53

FudgeFridays · 02/02/2026 15:40

I love the men in my family, including my wonderful, gentle son. And some of my male friends. But yes, the Epstein files are prompting exactly that question in me : would ALL men behave like this given enough power and money? The extent of who was involved just blows my mind. Not in a good way.

I don't think so. It takes a certain type of man to actually want lots of money and power in the first place.

That said, the majority will cheat if they think they can get away with it. I know because I used to be an attention seeker...I didn't sleep with them - I just liked prancing around in short skirts. I'd estimate 70 percent.

WaryCrow · 02/02/2026 15:49

Lost faith? You mean you had some?? I do trust men, I trust them to be sex-mad arseholes and think with their dicks and their testosterone. Always found it ‘funny’ that it was women labelled as ruled by hormones, when testosterone is out there.

The Epstein files aren’t showing me anything particularly, I’m more concerned about the case in France of men drugging and inviting strangers to rape their wives for years - ordinary men with families doing this to their wives - and a couple of similar cases I’ve seen that have not grabbed the media’s attention, probably because ‘it’s boring now’. Also the number of videos flooding the internet made of women on a night out in cities or just walking around living their lives, and the amount of misogynistic comments they attract.

Crone Island is the old name of the collective fantasy for women to live alone without men, what we actually need is Sheri Tepper’s Women’s Country. Men despise us and always will. Historically men as a species are very capable of throwing kids back into burning buildings and laughing.

The only thing the Epstein files are surprising me with is why oh why Mandelson was brought out of retirement when he was always dodgy as fuck. Some of us remember New Labour. They were traitors to the working classes.

MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend · 02/02/2026 15:49

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 01/02/2026 19:24

Yep, men - as a sex class - are horrific. I say this with having a lovely partner and nice men in my life, but you’ll get the NAMALT’s and ‘women do it too!’ posters along any second now as that’s more important than addressing the issue at hand.

Edited

But you've said that NAMALT by saying that you have a lovely partner and nice men in your life!

FudgeFridays · 02/02/2026 15:40

I love the men in my family, including my wonderful, gentle son. And some of my male friends. But yes, the Epstein files are prompting exactly that question in me : would ALL men behave like this given enough power and money? The extent of who was involved just blows my mind. Not in a good way.

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 15:36

StrawberrySquash · 02/02/2026 15:32

I think it's easier to feel yourself part of a group that is being talked about as victims or good people. Even if you aren't suffering the specific crime, you can empathise/be aware of your own potential vulnerability. Along with the moral outrage you feel.

But if you are a man not doing awful things, why would you group yourself in with those? Same way if you said people from London all stab people I wouldn't group myself in mentally even though I'm from London.

Your argument makes some sense except that nobody said 'all men do x.'
Do people really not understand this or is there a certain amount of disingenuousness going on?

nondrinker1985 · 02/02/2026 15:35

Hello! Sorry I haven’t been back. Had a netball tournament yesterday an incident which proved my point - some random fucker decided to stand outside one of the courts and film our girls playing netball so we had to tell him to fuck off!! They are 13/13 fgs.

OP posts:
Petrolitis · 02/02/2026 15:33

Happyjoe · 02/02/2026 15:19

Not all men.
But far too many.

Exactly. Not all men but fucking loads of them, from rape and murder to casual sexism and all the misogynistic toe rags in between.

They are myriad.

StrawberrySquash · 02/02/2026 15:32

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 13:00

What I find interesting is how much men seem to reject the idea that they are a group. Women are always grouped together and we seem to accept it and feel a sense of connection to each other, but men just say 'oh that's other men' and seem to feel no collective responsibility whatsoever. Women are always tarred collectively, but men shrug and say 'not me.' I think women would be absolutely mortified to belong to a group as awful as men are but men seem totally unbothered.

I think it's easier to feel yourself part of a group that is being talked about as victims or good people. Even if you aren't suffering the specific crime, you can empathise/be aware of your own potential vulnerability. Along with the moral outrage you feel.

But if you are a man not doing awful things, why would you group yourself in with those? Same way if you said people from London all stab people I wouldn't group myself in mentally even though I'm from London.

ThatBlackCat · 02/02/2026 15:32

Deadringer · 02/02/2026 15:27

When something bad happens to women
Men: not all men are like that
When they teenage daughters
Men: I know what men are like.

Yes, apart from their own daughters, they seem to forget. They only remember when something happens to their daughters. It's really inexplicable. You'd think men would know and understand their own sex. That they take such a thread so intensely personally says that maybe they have a guilty conscience, like maybe something long buried that they did a long time and and have now changed or something.

BlackCatDiscoClub · 02/02/2026 15:31

I know wonderful men. I also know a man who we thought was wonderful but who is currently doing time for beating a woman so badly she needed metal in her skull. I also know a man who tried to assualt my friend while she was passed out drunk, I caught him doing it. I also know some batshit women, but none of them have SA'd or physically assaulted anyone.

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 15:28

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:25

@Whyarepeople It's the sweeping generalisations I have a problem with, not the fact that people have different experiences.

It's the only tolerated sweeping generalisation on this site. If someone said all people of a certain race, religion, colour etc wete all the same. It would be objected to any rightly so.

I also have an issue with the mocking the use of the "Not All Man Brigade". It isn't all men.

Oh you thought people were saying all men are the same?

How did you pick that up? That's a really odd reading of this thread.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 15:28

asrl78 · 02/02/2026 15:20

But it doesn't require thinking so that is what will be done, but I agree, calling men horrific is about as reasonable as calling all women horrific because of Myra Hindley and Rose West. As for collective responsibility, I have no control over anyone else and therefore am not responsible for their actions, I am perfectly happy to condemn actions by either gender that violate my moral principles.

The funny thing is when people try and say ‘what about the women’ it’s always Myra Hindley and Rose West that are mentioned. Why is that? Because they are rare! Hindley’s crimes were in the 60’s, and both had men calling the shots to an extent. Not compatible in the slightest.

Of the sexual and violent crimes that occur, 98% are committed by men. So by sex class, they are more horrific. How is this so difficult to understand.

Deadringer · 02/02/2026 15:27

When something bad happens to women
Men: not all men are like that
When they teenage daughters
Men: I know what men are like.

Petrolitis · 02/02/2026 15:26

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 14:12

Are you aware that your style of arguing is quite rude?

I disagree that we're all just responsible for ourselves and our children. I believe that men feel that way, because it's lazy and it suits them. Women feel responsible for more than that, probably because we're socialised not to be entirely about ourselves.

To be clear when I say responsible, I don't mean answering for other people's crimes, I mean giving a shit and doing something about it.

He doesn't care that he is rude to you, you are only a woman so not a fully formed human like him.

It is quite something to watch him drip with so much privilege and not have a clue just how lucky he is.

Of course women feel responsible for each other as a sex class, we've been conditioned to be kind, to be responsible and to put others first from the day we are born, to try our best to be pretty and interesting and demure and sexy and a great mum and run a lovely home and be a career woman, and good in bed but modest too, otherwise we are asking for it, and what were we thinking being out in the dark, on a train, in a bar, in a hospital, at school, at a job interview surely we knew we were putting ourselves at risk of abuse. And be clever, but not too clever. It not the men's fault if we can't do that now is it? Better the witches that can't conform be burned.

Men do not feel responsible. And like this prize specimen, they would rather tell women that we are mad, or hysterical or have a chip on our shoulders for pointing out the reality that women inhabit and how viewing men as a threatening group is not a choice, it is a survival mechanism. Because many of those men have, want to or will abuse women.

And I will bet you a pound to a penny that this guy coming onto a primarily women's forum to tell us how wrong our lived experience is hasn't done one thing to stop misogyny. He's too much of a coward to stand up to other men. Its far easier to berate women.

It's all our fault after all right?

ThatBlackCat · 02/02/2026 15:26

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:25

@Whyarepeople It's the sweeping generalisations I have a problem with, not the fact that people have different experiences.

It's the only tolerated sweeping generalisation on this site. If someone said all people of a certain race, religion, colour etc wete all the same. It would be objected to any rightly so.

I also have an issue with the mocking the use of the "Not All Man Brigade". It isn't all men.

NO ONE....HAS....EVER....SAID.....IT....IS.....ALL....MEN.

So your post is not relevant.

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:25

@Whyarepeople It's the sweeping generalisations I have a problem with, not the fact that people have different experiences.

It's the only tolerated sweeping generalisation on this site. If someone said all people of a certain race, religion, colour etc wete all the same. It would be objected to any rightly so.

I also have an issue with the mocking the use of the "Not All Man Brigade". It isn't all men.

threescoops · 02/02/2026 15:24

I keep thinking about the Gisele Pelicot case and the recent British equivalent. Not just that her husband drugged and raped her for years, but that most of the men in the village queued up to join in. All their families probably thought they were nice normal men. It is disturbing.

asrl78 · 02/02/2026 15:20

snowlaser · 02/02/2026 13:48

Speaking as a man here, it's pretty offensive to be implicitly lumped in with sex offenders by saying you've "lost faith in men".

The number of men who are involved in sex trafficking compared to the total number of men is tiny.

Some people are bad people. Some of those bad people are men.

But it's crazy to tarnish 50% of the world with that same brush.

But it doesn't require thinking so that is what will be done, but I agree, calling men horrific is about as reasonable as calling all women horrific because of Myra Hindley and Rose West. As for collective responsibility, I have no control over anyone else and therefore am not responsible for their actions, I am perfectly happy to condemn actions by either gender that violate my moral principles.

Happyjoe · 02/02/2026 15:19

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:10

The monthly man bashing thread on MN.

It's ridicilous because it isn't all men and some of the agruments otherwise hold no weight.

I know plenty of good, great, fantastic men. Men, who respect women, treat them well and fairly.

Yes, some men are awful. No denying that but it's wrong to extrapoloate that to cover them all.

I know plenty of men absolutely disgusted by Epstein, Pelicot and others. I know men who have stood up for women on multiple occasions. I've seen plenty of men call other men out on shit. A friend intervened to prevent a woman being attached - ended up hospitalised for a week and he still says he'd do it again.

I'm not denying some men are truely horrific. They are but you lose the argument ever single time that all men are lumped together because that's simply not true.

Not all men.
But far too many.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 02/02/2026 15:17

ThatBlackCat · 02/02/2026 15:16

NO ONE HAS EVER FUCKING SAID IT'S ALL MEN!!!!

Can we please have one, just ONE (1) fucking thread without someone rushing in and screeching NAMALT?!??? Just ONE? Please? Ffs!

It’s fucking mental.

ThatBlackCat · 02/02/2026 15:16

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:10

The monthly man bashing thread on MN.

It's ridicilous because it isn't all men and some of the agruments otherwise hold no weight.

I know plenty of good, great, fantastic men. Men, who respect women, treat them well and fairly.

Yes, some men are awful. No denying that but it's wrong to extrapoloate that to cover them all.

I know plenty of men absolutely disgusted by Epstein, Pelicot and others. I know men who have stood up for women on multiple occasions. I've seen plenty of men call other men out on shit. A friend intervened to prevent a woman being attached - ended up hospitalised for a week and he still says he'd do it again.

I'm not denying some men are truely horrific. They are but you lose the argument ever single time that all men are lumped together because that's simply not true.

NO ONE HAS EVER FUCKING SAID IT'S ALL MEN!!!!

Can we please have one, just ONE (1) fucking thread without someone rushing in and screeching NAMALT?!??? Just ONE? Please? Ffs!

BlackCatDiscoClub · 02/02/2026 15:16

My DH has been digging into stats on who commits crimes to help win arguments against his more Reformy friends. He found in our area 80% of SA were committed by White men. He looked at me and said "Its just men, isn't it, men do these things, thats the common denominator". It feels like men try to pass the buck, oh its not me who does it, its those men over there. Yeah, but what's the connection? What do you have in common with them? Why are so many people like you doing this? And what are you doing to stop them?

Whyarepeople · 02/02/2026 15:15

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:10

The monthly man bashing thread on MN.

It's ridicilous because it isn't all men and some of the agruments otherwise hold no weight.

I know plenty of good, great, fantastic men. Men, who respect women, treat them well and fairly.

Yes, some men are awful. No denying that but it's wrong to extrapoloate that to cover them all.

I know plenty of men absolutely disgusted by Epstein, Pelicot and others. I know men who have stood up for women on multiple occasions. I've seen plenty of men call other men out on shit. A friend intervened to prevent a woman being attached - ended up hospitalised for a week and he still says he'd do it again.

I'm not denying some men are truely horrific. They are but you lose the argument ever single time that all men are lumped together because that's simply not true.

I am genuinely pleased for you @AwfullyGood - you have faith in men and that's based on positive, real-life experiences. Others don't have the same experience so they're coming at it from another point of view. Do you genuinely think it's just a matter of 'man-bashing'? What would be the purpose of that?

AwfullyGood · 02/02/2026 15:10

The monthly man bashing thread on MN.

It's ridicilous because it isn't all men and some of the agruments otherwise hold no weight.

I know plenty of good, great, fantastic men. Men, who respect women, treat them well and fairly.

Yes, some men are awful. No denying that but it's wrong to extrapoloate that to cover them all.

I know plenty of men absolutely disgusted by Epstein, Pelicot and others. I know men who have stood up for women on multiple occasions. I've seen plenty of men call other men out on shit. A friend intervened to prevent a woman being attached - ended up hospitalised for a week and he still says he'd do it again.

I'm not denying some men are truely horrific. They are but you lose the argument ever single time that all men are lumped together because that's simply not true.

Happyjoe · 02/02/2026 15:02

Things seem to be going backwards too, over how women are treated/regarded.
Just this morning there was a story on BBC of grown men going around filming women without their consent while out on the lash. Up-skirting images, any girls with shorts skirts/skimpy clothing. Uploading it on websites for men to view in their millions.
That and the use of AI to derobe photos of women for gratification that also made the news recently. FFS.

I am appalled. It's disgusting. It's not as uncommon as men like to make out either otherwise there wouldn't be a market for this kind of stuff. Same as porn. If it were the minority, nobody would bother.