To have lost faith in men

It’s really odd how they’re just consumed by and obsessed with sex. Just really really weird.

Woman definitely have it worse with men. That's a fact. I don't believe your experience of women. I don't know anyone who has had that experience of women you speak of. Men are stronger than women. I doubt very much that a man would end up on the floor after being hit by a woman. I don't believe you And even if the woman knew martial arts I doubt she would use it in the way you describe. Most violence against women are done by men

Others may not,but I believe you 100%, and will probably get called a liar too when I say I have had two experiences with violent women in the past, both unprovoked, and both pretty scary.

I would never disbelieve women when they recount the horrible experiences they have had with men, and I can well understand why it can make them distrust men.

I do think it's sad that so many women (on Mumsnet, anyway) go through life fearful and distrustful of half the population.
I wonder if pre internet, when women didn't get a daily feed of how horrible the majority of men are, the majority of women took men as they found them, ie, mostly OK.

As a result of all the Epstein stuff. Having been a victim of a sexual assault as a young child then in my teens and twenties I had a sense of what men were like but my DH is a good man.

Literally everyone is involved in this Epstein stuff- anyone with power. So this makes them exploit young women? It’s sickening - it’s heartbreaking for the young girls who are victims of these men.

Others may not,but I believe you 100%, and will probably get called a liar too when I say I have had two experiences with violent women in the past, both unprovoked, and both pretty scary.

I would never disbelieve women when they recount the horrible experiences they have had with men, and I can well understand why it can make them distrust men.

I do think it's sad that so many women (on Mumsnet, anyway) go through life fearful and distrustful of half the population.
I wonder if pre internet, when women didn't get a daily feed of how horrible the majority of men are, the majority of women took men as they found them, ie, mostly OK.

Others may not,but I believe you 100%, and will probably get called a liar too when I say I have had two experiences with violent women in the past, both unprovoked, and both pretty scary.

I would never disbelieve women when they recount the horrible experiences they have had with men, and I can well understand why it can make them distrust men.

I do think it's sad that so many women (on Mumsnet, anyway) go through life fearful and distrustful of half the population.
I wonder if pre internet, when women didn't get a daily feed of how horrible the majority of men are, the majority of women took men as they found them, ie, mostly OK.

Have you ever been punched square in the face by another woman because she thought I was standing too close to her boyfriend at the bar? I have.

Have you ever been picked up off the floor by two of your male friends having been assaulted by a woman? I have. Have you ever been looked after by them when you’re injured? I have. Have you had a male friend get hit by a woman to protect you and him refuse to fight back against that woman? I have.

Do I look out for myself when I’m by myself (who I is now I’m choosing to answer your battery of extreme examples of questions)? Yes. Do I do that because of men specifically? No.

All men are not the same. You think you’re right, maybe from your perspective you are but you’re not, and never will be, from mine.

Woman definitely have it worse with men. That's a fact. I don't believe your experience of women. I don't know anyone who has had that experience of women you speak of. Men are stronger than women. I doubt very much that a man would end up on the floor after being hit by a woman. I don't believe you And even if the woman knew martial arts I doubt she would use it in the way you describe. Most violence against women are done by men

Have you ever been punched square in the face by another woman because she thought I was standing too close to her boyfriend at the bar? I have.

Have you ever been picked up off the floor by two of your male friends having been assaulted by a woman? I have. Have you ever been looked after by them when you’re injured? I have. Have you had a male friend get hit by a woman to protect you and him refuse to fight back against that woman? I have.

Do I look out for myself when I’m by myself (who I is now I’m choosing to answer your battery of extreme examples of questions)? Yes. Do I do that because of men specifically? No.

All men are not the same. You think you’re right, maybe from your perspective you are but you’re not, and never will be, from mine.

Have you ever been punched square in the face by another woman because she thought I was standing too close to her boyfriend at the bar? I have.

Have you ever been picked up off the floor by two of your male friends having been assaulted by a woman? I have. Have you ever been looked after by them when you’re injured? I have. Have you had a male friend get hit by a woman to protect you and him refuse to fight back against that woman? I have.

Do I look out for myself when I’m by myself (who I is now I’m choosing to answer your battery of extreme examples of questions)? Yes. Do I do that because of men specifically? No.

All men are not the same. You think you’re right, maybe from your perspective you are but you’re not, and never will be, from mine.

Do you cross over the road when theres a woman walking behind you in the dark because you're scared of her footsteps? Do you have your car keys in your hand so you can go for the eyes if someone jumps out at you? Have you thought about how you'd kick a guy in the balls and run? Have you been desperate for the loo but walked past a public toilet because it was dimly lit? Have you considered whether you'd go limp during a rape or fight back, because if you don't struggle you might survive, but then the police might take lack of struggle as consent?

Not at all.

The men are just sleeping with the same smaller number of women. Also a lot of the women they are sleeping with may be single.

It’s very easy to have a difference in the numbers.

The trouble with this kind of analysis is that sex class is not the only class. Given that the OP mentioned Epstein, social class and wealth class also seem quite significant.

This is why intersectional feminism is important.

I don't dispute that men - as a sex class! - have been and continue to be responsible for more horrific acts of violence and exploitation than women as a sex class. But that's just an observation, not analysis. No one seems to be able to decide whether this is due to cultural socialisation or something innate to men, or to what extent. Which is a problem - if you want to address the issue, you have to know what the issue is.

Personally I don't believe the issue is actually about men, per se, but about power structures. Humans in positions of power will exploit and victimise humans they consider beneath them if they don't think there will be consequences. Women very much included - I always think about how many domestic abuse cases involve upper-class, wealthy women abusing their female staff/servants.

It's good that a man has come onto this thread to tell a female poster that she has a chip on her shoulder.

My goodness me what a chip on the shoulder you seem to have here!

I am responsible for myself and my children. That is true for me, for all other men, and for all other women. We are responsible for our own actions, and for guiding our children into behaving well and taking appropriate actions. Nothing more, nothing less.

To somehow imply that the world is just two groups and that people need to feel collectively responsible for the actions of 4 BILLION other people who are thir sex is probably the most absurd thing I've read on mumsnet ever.

Decentering men does not mean being self-centered. It means not making the male gaze and appealing to men the primary driver of everything you do.

Is every single man in the world like this, no of course not. The group that commit the most hideous crimes (sex trafficking, rape etc) is small, however even one is still one too many and that is only the extreme crimes.

The group that is committing less extreme offences (I wont say less serious because that belittles the offence) is far far larger and one of the issues is that a lot of men in this group don't even understand what they are doing is wrong. Most men like to think of themselves as "nice guys" but I suspect at some point in their life have done something to make a woman uncomfortable, threatened, etc. It is probably something that man never even thought twice about but that woman may have thought about it for a long time. This is the issue, we need to have more empathy and understand how actions society trivialises can have a huge impact on someone and absolutely are not acceptable! To me (and very happy to be corrected) one of the scariest issues isn't that these things happen but it is the fact men don't even understand why or how what they do is wrong or what impact it causes. That in my mind is why women have lost faith in men, its one thing for a group to be despicable but when a fairly large group can't even comprehend an issue exists it or even that the issue is acceptable then it makes you wonder if this is something that can ever be changed or if this is actually an inbuilt male psyche.

As men we should focus on how we can change things so that rather than feeling the need to defend ourselves as an individual and "I'm not like them" there is no them to start with.

For clarity I am a male.

Plenty of men do use vile language about women but the solution isn't to be vile back.