To have lost faith in men

"Some 47,000 women and girls worldwide were killed by their intimate partners or other family members in 2020. This means that, on average, a woman or girl is killed by someone in her own family every 11 minutes"

• United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 2020 Estimates

"A 10th of men in Britain report having paid for sex, and this group has an increased risk of acquiring a sexually transmitted infection, a large survey has found" (2014)

• https://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g6854

"An estimated 840 million women – almost one in three – have been subjected to physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence, non-partner sexual violence, or both at least once in their life (30 per cent of women aged 15 and older)"

• UN Women, Facts and Figures: Ending Violence Against Women.

"The scale of child sexual abuse is truly staggering. Children make up only 20% of the population (of England & Wales) but are the victims in 40% of all sexual offences. 7.5% of all adults in England and Wales are estimated to have been sexually abused before the age of 16"

• Gov.uk, Tackling Child Sexual Abuse: Progress Update

These stats are just the tip of the iceberg, the vast majority of rape, sexual assaults and childhood abuse go unreported, lets not even think about what's happening in countries like Afghanistan and other likeminded societies that see women as little more than orifices for men to gain pleasure from and child bearing vessels.

Let's not even delve into the routine violence that prostitutes - no, I don't call them sex workers, it is not an empowering career choice, most women in that situation are victims of child abuse, domestic violence, addiction and are economically underprivileged. They are almost always exploited or trafficked by men.

Men are definitely a huge problem but to my mind the bigger problem are women that act as handmaidens to men, that place male needs firmly at the centre of everything.

Men are not the most marginalised, vulnerable group in society. This is why it's so important to have statistics recorded that are based in biological reality.

All women born in the UK today have never known what it's like to be disenfranchised by their sex but let's not forget that we've only have the vote for just over 100 years.

I know not all men are awful, my Grandfather was the most wonderful person to have walked the face of the Earth. He was truly the most decent human being I have ever had the privilege to know.

But men are definitely a problem.

YANBU

I've had endless trouble with men most of my life.

On the way from primary school in the 1970s, age about 8, a man exposed himself to me.

When walking home from secondary school, I would say about once a week (!!!) I would get men stopping in their cars to make lewd suggestions ( didn't happen at weekends when I wasn't wearing uniform).

When I was at uni, I was supposed to have my final year dissertation supervised by a male member of staff but I didn't ever have any supervision because be was well known to try to get female students into bed.

Also while I was a student, I stayed with some family friends one summer while doing an internship at that company the husband
Worked at. I went to work with him and he kept on putting his hand on my thigh near my crotch when he was driving. I was the same age as his daughter.

As an adult, my 3 romantic relationships (all men) have all been abusive.

I have also had endless bullying (not of a sexual nature) from male doctors.

I can't see myself ever really fully trusting a man again.

Why is being patronising to the posters they disagree with the default for so many posters on this thread?

Disagree with me all you like but it would be better if you could debate without the passive agression.

I don't want to hijack this thread as male physical violence to women is real..but my ds as teen was ridiculed and bullied by some of the "popular girls" in the year. It really hurt his confidence and make him feel like a complete and utter loser.

Well that would apply to everyone, male and female.
I haven't gone through life being suspicious of every man I have met, and so far, it's made life a lot more pleasant than for someone who sees every man as a potential threat....even the ones she is close to.

They are myriad. They are legion.

My dear - we aren't saying 'all men' - we're saying 'many men'; and that how can we tell who's a good'un? When they all look the same.

Thank you, Marjorie - haven't seen that before.

It needs to be on a huge billboard.

My DS has had his bum slapped and pinched by girls (complete strangers) in nightclubs. He reports them if he can and had gotten them kicked out.

I had a male friend who I thought I knew well and we were friends for 40 years. Eventually, he showed himself to be a condescending misogynist. I saw the way he behaved when he split up with his wife, how horrible he was to her, and how he immediately went chasing after women. It was painful to see. You never know who someone is till they show you their true selves.

Quite. You don't know who you're married to until you tell him you want a divorce.

The thing is, we don't know who is decent and who is rotten. We think we do.

The evil that men do

Women who facilitate paedophiles are not handmaidens or suffering from internalised misogyny, they’re as bad as the men they’re enabling.

Internalised misogyny. Disappointingly happens with so many women. Look at all the handmaiden TRAs that enable men to take over women’s spaces and language?

Your point is really hard to follow @brunettemic. From what I've read, you seem to be saying you've been attacked by a woman - which is a rare occurrence but no doubt very scary. Due to this incident, you're wary of all people. Is that right?

Most women haven't been attacked by women and would never expect to be attacked by a woman as it so rarely happens. They have, however, been attacked by men. Therefore they are wary of men. That seems logical to me.

You were attacked by a woman, so you're wary of women and men.
Most women are attacked by men, so they're wary of men.

I can't really see where you're disagreeing with other posters? Maybe you're not and I've picked you up wrong?

Such mispresentations of both sides here.

On this thread it seems the vast majority of women who have posted are scared to death at worse, wary and mistrustful at best, of ALL men. Frightened is entirely valid and shouldn't be implicitly mocked or dismissed in this way; please be aware that the posters who fit this description may well be suffering from trauma due to abuse. Wary and mistrustful, yes indeed - see below.

Does that mean I treat all men like that? Absolutely not. I'm not sure believe you, at least in the sense in which most posters here are talking about treating men - with caution, when appropriate.

To both these posters, here's my NAMALT Staniland question again. Any honest response (that doesn't dodge the issue with prevarication or unlikely hypotheticals) is almost sure to be the same. Each and every time. Which shows that posters know exactly what most other women here really feel and mean - and likely experience it themselves to a greater or lesser degree.

"Think of the woman or girl you care about most. Imagine her walking alone down an empty street at night.

She sees a stranger coming towards her out of the darkness."

Would you rather that the stranger was a man or a woman?"

*Edited my question to replace "figure" with "stranger"! Makes the point more clearly.

My conclusion is that of course some women have needed protection from some men, long before 1974.
The women who have been mistreated by men have the right to feel fear, some from the men who have ill-treated them, some from all men.

On this thread it seems the vast majority of women who have posted are scared to death at worse, wary and mistrustful at best, of ALL men.
It's like mass hysteria to me.

I am old enough and woman enough to have met many men...a few have been pigs, the vast majority have been respectful.

That's my opinion based on MY experiences.

On a thread about men, 200 posts in, you decide to plop a ‘but women do it too’ and ‘all men are not the same’, like we are stupid. Unfortunately I am paying attention but predictably not that surprised.

Loving the fact that there are now posters trying to say women can be just as violent as men….

Women do not pose anywhere near as much risk to society as men do, in any aspect.

That’s why I always tell my children that if they ever get lost then they need to go and find a woman, explain what’s happened and ask for help. I would never tell they to go up to a random man and say they’re lost. Never.

I imagine a lot of mothers would be the same.

If you were paying attention you’ll have noted that I’ve said it’s more likely to be men.

Hear hear!

I'd also add that women don't go around raping other women, we don't have a female version of the men that lined up to rape Gisèle Pelicot. Men overpower women with ease. Three women per week on average around the world are murdered by men. Domestic Violence is another example. To say women are equal in strength to men and commit violence at the same rate as women and are as much a threat as men or more is an absolute lie and completely batshit.

98% of assaults are by males. The statistics are quite clear.

And male on female violence is far worse than female on female violence. For example males hit 176% harder than females.

The SCUM Manifesto by Valerie Solanas (shot Andy Warhol) is an interesting (if admittedly slightly crazy) read!
I liked her point that men were defective because their Y chromosome was just a deformed X. She strongly advocated the abolishment of all men, so obviously extreme...
But the point is there. Its not All men, but its men. Not women. Id love to think we can raise our boys better, but there's not much sign of improvement. My own ds has 2 very vocal sisters (it was my dd who gave me the SCUM Manifesto to read) and a lot of female friends, so I like to think he is respectful of women. But a boy who was at school with dd2 (20) has just been imprisoned for rape, so is it really getting better?

Has anyone said women aren’t capable of harm and violence?

Statistically though men cause more harm than women. Why is your main thought ‘women do it too’ when men are the main perpetrators of harm. It’s about as useful as ‘not all men’, which is still rearing it’s head I see.