To have lost faith in men

So as we all know, every man, unless he has a medical condition, CAN rape, and of course reasonable people also know that the majority of men DONT rape.
The Gisele case was horrendous. It horrified the world, because of the way her husband and other men acted.

Do you think that's the norm? Would your father, husband, son, queue up to have unlawful sex with someone elses comatose wife?

Obviously, not all men etc etc.

But there seems to be an effort to convince us that the men who would, if they could get away with it, are a tiny insignificant fraction that aren't worth worrying about, and this simply isn't true. As cases like Gisele Pelicot's prove. And how many lined up to exploit Bonnie Blue? I know she set it up, consented etc so they've covered that line and it must all be her fault but honestly, what kind of man chooses to participate in something like that and how come they are so easy to find?

Not all men are rapists but all rapists are men and all that.

You said ‘can and will are two very different words’ in response to a poster advising you that men have the ability to rape, as if it was outside the realms of possibility for it to happen, because you know as you keep banging on, we are all out here walking about petrified of EVERY man walking the earth.

They weren’t so different when 50 (that they know of), so called ‘ordinary men’, of ‘respectable’ professions were found in proximity of one village to come and rape Ms Pelicot given the chance.

Because it has no connection to the post you answered.

How so?

Ridiculous response.

No. Women have no sex drive at all, and humans reproduce only when absolutely obsessed with various kinks and non consensual activity, as any fule kno. We do indeed owe our lives and the existence of humanity to male perversion and abuse, so what the fuck are we complaining about.

Thanks for your input, Oona.

Are they? Tell that to Gisele Pelicot.

If men weren't overwhelmingly motivated by sex, would any of us be alive? Would the human race have been sustained?

Yes,,I mean...sometimes I think porn discussions on FWR or elsewhere on MN are less 'misogynistic/violent porn is bad' or 'you can never know if porn actors are happy to do it' and more 'wanting to watch any kind of sex is misogynistic'.

I don't think even porn showing vanilla sex is OK as you can never know if the people are OK with doing it or not, but I also don't think wanting to watch sex is automatically misogynistic.

Can and will are two very different words.🙄

Of course they can!

Neither will most men.🙄

Of course it applies to everyone. But most women aren't strong enough to overpower me, and they won't rape me.

Of course women are capable of violence. But a woman is only as strong as I am, which means I'd have a chance of fending her off, and what they don't do is rape,

We're not 'lumping' all men together. How could we? Don't be so daft.

Another example of whataboutery. 'Oh but WIMMIN!' I'm not even going to respond to that. ^

If you want to go on about women, and all their failings, then start a new thread about it. THIS thread is about how awful many men are.

I appreciate that he was your grandfather, so you’d prefer not to be aware of that side of him, but otherwise - that’s not representative of pretty much anything.

Women watch porn. Women can be dirty minded, if we’re putting it that way. Women are into rough sex, and hardcore porn. “Shagging and giving blow jobs” is neither of those things.

I think the idea that men own sex and all that it entails is really archaic.

Much the same as I’d say about searching someone’s phone history, if you don’t want to find someone’s porn - don’t go in their wardrobe. The fact he had it doesn’t mean anything - grown ups have sex, and they occasionally watch it too.

@CatsAreBetterThanMen Thank you for that long detailed post. Lots of interesting, but also terrifying stats on there, but sadly, none of it is shocking to me! (Probably not to many other women on here either.)

The only thing I will say is regarding your last sentence, where you say your grandfather was 'the most wonderful man', my grandfather was too, a gentle, funny, kind man who we had so much fun with as kids - me and my brother and cousins, and we had lovely Christmas days with him, and caravan holidays in Wales.

But this one time (when I was about 12 or 13,) I was at my grandparents house visiting with my mum and my auntie, and my cousin, and my cousin and I decided to play hide and seek whilst the adults chatted in the garden. I went to hide in my grandad's wardrobe (he and gran had separate bedrooms,) and I was being a bit nosey, and as I was trying to wriggle in, and a bunch of video cassette tapes fell out. 6 of them. All hardcore porn. The covers had pics of people actually shagging/giving blow jobs/and all manner of porn.

I am not saying my grandfather was a bad person, or that people who watch porn are bad people, but I was shocked, and I never saw my grandfather in the same light again. He went from a loving, kindly old man who was my hero, to just another dirty-minded man. I still loved him, and he was still nice to us, and I was still OK to visit him, but that side of him I had discovered wouldn't go from my mind. He was actually just a typical man. Even in his 70s which he was then, he had porn. Sadly, when push comes to shove, all men are the same. Some are just worse than others, and there are varying degrees of their awfulness, but all men have some kind of sexist, pervy, misogynistic traits in them. Every last one.

100% this. The sad thing is that this poster cannot even see it. They claim that the women on this thread are not being ''sweet' and 'apologetic,' they are being a bit passive aggressive, and not very nice.

Ya know what @AwfullyGood I am not going to be sweet and lovely when someone is trying to minimise the dreadful, hideous behaviour that comes from many men, and the effect and impact their abuse and control and bad behaviour has had on billions of women.

I must say yesterday I did have a loss of faith in men.

I was reading this news story yesterday;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgjwxdz45ywo

It was a link to a news story on a social media platform.

Reading the comments every single male account was lambasting the decision, how disgusting it was, how wives have a duty to have sex with their husbands, and how if she says “no” then he has a right to cheat with other women.

I normally don’t read the comments but wanted to see if any “good men” commentators would challenge the others.

I saw none.

This is just more of the same deflective bullshit where you try to blame women for not being sweet and apologetic enough while they counter your nonsense so that you can put the emphasis on their supposed wrongful behaviour rather than the abuse under discussion. If you gave a shit about what mattered, you'd be more concerned about that than a woman being a bit sarcastic towards you while you lecture her.

It's ancient.

If you would like to highlight the "nonsense" and debate and discuss it fair enough but that's not what happened.

You think the tone is justifed whereas I don't. I don't care if people are rude or unpleasant, I just find it disappointing that some poster's can't articulate their point in a more effective way and just default to silly statement rather than cobstructive challenge.

No once have I said that voilence against women and girls is another other than horrifically wrong.

No once have I said some men aren't awful.

Why are women not being sweet enough to you while they point out your nonsense more of an issue than violence against women and girls? Why do you have no counter other than "be nice, woman"? Why must you criticise the tone, which is totally justified, rather than what is actually being said?