To have lost faith in men

Although I have a wonderful husband, a
lovely dad, uncles, grandads and nephews etc I sometimes feel that there is something within men that is just different and something to potentially to fear in some of them.

I remember being out a few years ago with some of my friends and there was a fight in the street where 4 men beat the absolute shit out of another guy and they eye filled with so much rage and anger, it was truly horrific. It was the most brutal thing I have ever seen. The other guy was unconscious on the floor and the group of 4 were still kicking him and punching him, over and over again, hitting him with some kind of bar…. He was absolutely covered in blood, not moving and they just kept on attacking him. All I could think was, “What runs through their blood that caused them to be able to do that to someone?” It was like looking at a group of feral animals. It was terrifying. It was evil.

I will never, ever forget it.

And yes, I know it’s not all men (blah, blah, blah) but there’s something about men as a group that just makes some of them so different to women in terms of their core nature and their potential (and ability) to be violent and deviant.

It's not just Rich and Powerful men - the Pelicot case showed how many everyday, working class, FAMILY men actually participated in raping her and how many more didn't BUT knew it was happening and didn't report it to the Police.

Until that case I thought it was a minority of men that would abuse women given a chance. Now I know it's the majority.

If they think they'll get away with it they'll go for it. Sex is everything to them because their primitive instincts overrule decency and morals.

I was having dinner in a bar in Glasgow just before Christmas and it was packed with groups of men. There was a women’s protest march went past outside with signs saying “respect women”. Every single group of men watching them through the windows, laughed, jeered and made deeply misogynistic comments. My 16 yo daughter and I shamed them by pointing out what they were doing. And yet supposedly men are too afraid to call out their friends in doing so.

I think I lost my faith in men a long time ago but everytime I am still horrified about how low so many men will go: the Pelicot story and now the Epstein revelations just show how widespread the abuse of women and girls by men is.

I could not care less about those who keep bleating about "not all men".

We have a serious problem in this world with toxic masculinity and men getting away with abuse and that needs to be addressed, not enabled

My life has included a violent and abusive father, being assaulted at school by male pupils and raped by a male "friend". So yes I Don't trust men.

The fact that some women have lovely husbands and sons does not change the fact that male violence against women and girls is endemic.

And it's pretty offensive is it? To lump you all in the same boat??

If you're offended by that, then it just demonstrates you know nothing about what women suffer.

So take your offensive elsewhere. Perhaps do some good for women? Stand up, defend us??

Oh no. Cos men don't. They only stand up for other men, by keeping quiet.

Real warriors

'Speaking as a man here'

Would it be facetious to ask you to read the room here?

You understand it’s not just about sex trafficking? Because not understanding that is largely why so many have lost faith in men.

That is fine.
I, however, will stick to avoiding all men.
And keeping legal weapons for personal use,
as a trained daughter of a high ranking soldier.
😁

I understand OP, it seems that for many rich men, once they can afford absolutely anything and everything many times over, decide that the ultimate thrill is torture, rape, killing of young women, children and animals.
These are men at their most educated, most powerful and most rich.
It does force you to wonder whether men are only as ‘good’ as the opportunities that are available to them, and give the chance and (the perceived anonymity) would they continue to be Good.
I have good men in my life, my dad and uncles and brothers are nice people but unfortunately I know many more who are despicable creatures.

Men don't call other men out because they are either afraid of other men or don't care

They are what they are.

They show us what they are every day. The ones here just have too.

It’s not just men with power either. The Gisele Pelicot case. Over 50 men (that they know of), ordinary men with respectable jobs, all found within a 30 mile radius of their village.

Yep! Reminds me of this cartoon

I actually want to cry because the truth is, I'm not surprised at all. Women give men the benefit of the doubt over and over and over. We hope and pray for them to be better. We give them chance after chance. We love them, support them, make their lives easier.

Even when we've been raped and brutalised by men, we invite them into our home and make a life with them.

And when we talk about our pain they say 'I don't do that! You have a chip on your shoulder! Stop being absurd and crazy!'

I don't want to give up on men, but boy are they making it really really hard not to.

Are you surprised though?

It is so disappointing that men's first response is to defend themselves and tell women they're crazy.

Dream on, my friend.
😔

I long for the day (and it may have happened already and I missed it) when a thread like this starts on MN and a man comes along and says: 'When I read this, I find it hurts my feelings and I have a desire to defend myself, but I understand that in world where women are routinely threatened, assaulted, raped and sold as possessions my feelings of hurt are really not the issue. I don't hurt anyone but I'd really like to see an end to women being hurt. I really care about this.'

Oh, fuck this, honestly.
You are all right.
I keep repeating ad nauseam, men are hell.
When I was 42, something clicked.
Now 47, I physically avoid all men and will do so for eternity. Older I get, more agreeable I feel for this set up.
Yes, the Epstein files are 🤢.
He managed to do the right thing, at the right time for himself, though.

Extreme wealth is a bad thing for everyone

Then why aren't the rich, powerful women in the world generally engaging in sex trafficking?

Hilariously deluded.

Even if most men are not sex offenders, most men are sex pests ... to some degree ... Grabby, gropy, watch porn, eye up women half their age, will try it on with most reasonably attractive women, think of women as less than them, and think they're superior to women. Also many men are lazy, and quite selfish, and most of them will pretty much always put themselves first.

I completely agree with the poster who said that men as a general class are pretty horrific. A small percentage of men are pretty OK, (most of the time,) but most of them are sexist, pervy, and entitled. At least at some period in their lives. Some of them are like this all throughout their lives.

Of course, you always get the Not My Nigels on here, and the 'oooh but some women are not great!' crap being spouted. It's as tedious as fuck, but very predictable. 🙄

'Wot about the women!!!' is a pathetic and lame argument that is just insulting to the amount of shit that many women have to suffer during their lifetime at the hands of men.

.

Sorry I should have been clearer but really it would be pointless for men to answer for other men's crimes - no one would benefit. I would like men to take a lot more action though. Every single change that has come about in terms of women's rights and protections has been fought for by women, usually with men blocking them at every turn. Now men are trying to pull back women's rights in many part of the world and men who consider themselves good and decent are just silent. It's really disappointing. Of course not all men are sex offenders but most men, IME, do very little to change things. That doesn't inspire trust.

To be clear when I say responsible, I don't mean answering for other people's crimes, I mean giving a shit and doing something about it.

I think this distinction is the one that I was missing. I read "collective responsibility" as a claim that because I'm a man I should somehow bear responsibility for other men's shitty choices.

However taken in the sense of "we've all got a responsibility to do what we can to make the world a better place" then I agree.

I'm not convinced by all these lovely men that you're all apparently related to

Oh not my daddy etc

Wake up

I'm really sorry to say it but based on experience I don't believe you at all. That's not fair on you, because you may be telling the truth, but in my experience men do pretty much nothing to tackle misogyny. I include men I really admire in that.