I try knickers on in shops.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with looking in the mirror and thinking you look beautiful or gorgeous!
That's what you said in your previous post.
And it is vastly different from what you are now saying which is talking about thinking you are " attractive" for heaven's sake!

The first thread was my disgust at a man in a changing room whilst I'm having a bra fitting.

It got derailed by trying on knicker talk.

I wish I hadn't mentioned trying on the matching knickers in the previous thread, as it meant people didn't hear how vulnerable I felt knowing that my breasts were repeatedly exposed a metre away from an unknown man with only a badly fitting curtain for protection.

It’s not vain to think yourself attractive. What an odd opinion.

It's a matter of opinion.

I certainly wouldn't want to have to interact with any one who was so vain. Vanity is a very unappealing character trait

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with looking in the mirror and thinking you look beautiful or gorgeous!

Narcissism is when people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance,

I was thinking very much of the myth about Narcissus: seeing his reflection in the pool and falling in love with himself because he looked so beautiful.
That's what sprang to mind when OP talked about looking at herself in the changing room mirror and thinking how lovely she looked in a pair of knickers.

when I've dressed up in something that really suits me and put some makeup on and done my hair I do look in the mirror before going out and think 'yeah, I look really pretty today'.
I think that's reasonable. And vastly different from what you posted earlier about looking in the mirror and thinking you look beautiful and gorgeous.

Fair enough!

I love that people are able to express confidence and happiness with their appearance. I think it's healthier than how it's been for eons which is to put yourself down at every turn. It's culturally baked into us. If you compliment someone on their nice dress it's 'oh, this old thing? I wasn't sure if it fit or not but I guess it's okay...', if you say they look refreshed 'oh I haven't slept in a week, it's all makeup!' it's the norm to bat away compliments. I know so many people who feel extremely uncomfortable with a compliment and if they just try say 'thank you' they feel it's incredibly big headed and rude and the other person will think they're up themselves.

Narcissism is when people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance, I guess in this context people having an unreasonably high opinion of their appearance. I would take that to mean someone average looking thinking they're supermodel gorgeous. I don't think you need to be deluded to think you look great tbh. I'm no model, I'm well aware of my physical flaws, but when I've dressed up in something that really suits me and put some makeup on and done my hair I do look in the mirror before going out and think 'yeah, I look really pretty today'.

I guess at the core of this is the belief on your side that thinking you look gorgeous means they're big headed. To me, big-headed would be 'I'm the best looking person in this room, that woman is only giving me dirty looks cos she's jealous, every man wants me, I'm going to be snatched up by a modelling agency any moment now'. Thinking 'I look gorgeous today' isn't that, to me. But agree to disagree of course.

I'd be interested in others chipping in with this, do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and think you look great/gorgeous/pretty/really nice? Do you think it's a bad thing if someone else does?

Fair enough!

I love that people are able to express confidence and happiness with their appearance. I think it's healthier than how it's been for eons which is to put yourself down at every turn. It's culturally baked into us. If you compliment someone on their nice dress it's 'oh, this old thing? I wasn't sure if it fit or not but I guess it's okay...', if you say they look refreshed 'oh I haven't slept in a week, it's all makeup!' it's the norm to bat away compliments. I know so many people who feel extremely uncomfortable with a compliment and if they just try say 'thank you' they feel it's incredibly big headed and rude and the other person will think they're up themselves.

Narcissism is when people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance, I guess in this context people having an unreasonably high opinion of their appearance. I would take that to mean someone average looking thinking they're supermodel gorgeous. I don't think you need to be deluded to think you look great tbh. I'm no model, I'm well aware of my physical flaws, but when I've dressed up in something that really suits me and put some makeup on and done my hair I do look in the mirror before going out and think 'yeah, I look really pretty today'.

I guess at the core of this is the belief on your side that thinking you look gorgeous means they're big headed. To me, big-headed would be 'I'm the best looking person in this room, that woman is only giving me dirty looks cos she's jealous, every man wants me, I'm going to be snatched up by a modelling agency any moment now'. Thinking 'I look gorgeous today' isn't that, to me. But agree to disagree of course.

I'd be interested in others chipping in with this, do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and think you look great/gorgeous/pretty/really nice? Do you think it's a bad thing if someone else does?

It's one thing to look in the mirror and think yes I look nice enough, or suitably dressed.
I don't regard looking in the mirror and thinking I look gorgeous, or I look beautiful as having self esteem. I regard it as being narcissistic and big headed. And quite frankly totally off putting that some one has such a high opinion of themselves
Unfortunately society today has produced a large number of people obsessed with appearance and who are absolutely vain.

You don't ever look in the mirror and think you look lovely? Or beautiful? Or gorgeous? Or whatever?

I find that really sad. It's not big headed to be pleased with what you see in the mirror. Looking at your reflection and thinking 'gosh, I look great' isn't a sign of a big ego, it's the sign of health self-esteem.

Yes of course I buy clothing which I hope suits me and I try, like most women , to make the best of my appearance.

But I would never ever look in the mirror and think " gosh, don't I look lovely" because I don't have the self obsession and ego to do that. And I am amazed that anyone would be so self satisfied as to do that.

The thought of someone in a changing room mirror in a pair of knickers thinking how lovely they look in them is absolutely risible. Imo of course.

Do you not buy clothing that looks lovely and makes you look lovely?

I feel sad for you that you don't buy clothing that makes you look and feel good.

Functional doesn't have to be ugly or dull.

I saw a pic circulated of a bloke doing much worse than breathing on them... 😲

There does seem to be a lot of frothing here. I just buy knickers in my size, and they always fit. What kind of weird shapes are the rest of you that you need to be trying on knickers?

I've lived in a few cities and enjoy shopping day trips with friends. I'd never seen trying on clothes as a kink, but you do you.

Last night's group was 6 of us.

Hearing that, I'm so glad I buy pants in the plastic packs.

In fairness to @Windowseleventy I disagree with JL policy of allowing me to have a bra fitting in a mixed sex changing room with only a badly fitting curtain between me and him.

They're allowed to disagree with all those shops' policies of trying on underwear.

But as you point out, the knickers can be £100+. Shops know it's in their best interests to allow customers to try them on as most of us don't have £100 to throw away on ill fitting pants.