My child is asking to join the scouts and I’m in two minds.

I am so sorry to read this. Absolutely awful.

Assuming since they are 11 that you have had the pants rule? Discussed situations that might come up and how to deal with them.

You're not unreasonable to have concerns, we should always be aware of the risks when we send our children to any activity without us - whether that's school, scouts, out with friends etc.

But you are unreasonable to stop your child trying these activities without at least investigating the risks further, and weighting up the risks when compared to the benefits that your child may receive.

Go and talk to the scout leaders, ask about their safeguarding policies, and how they work in practice. Talk to other parents. Talk to your child about grooming, abuse and what to do in the event that they feel uncomfortable. It's really important that your child feels they can come to you, or another trusted adult, if they are in a situation that they feel uneasy about.

If there's a space available, and you've talked to the leaders, then let your child try it out for a bit, see if they enjoy it, volunteer to help at a few sessions, build a relationship with the leaders yourself.

If you really don't feel comfortable sending your child on camp then don't. While scout camps are amazing, scouts do so much more than just camping. It's not the be all and end all if they miss the camp.

Why are so many people suggesting sending her to other organisations rather than Scouts?
She's an 11 year old girl, the chances are she wants to join Scouts because that's the organisation her friends are in.

At 11 friendships are important.

My 11 year old dd goes and loves it. My older ds went too and it's the same female leader they've had for years. Never felt worried. The leaders in both cubs and scouts have been doing for a long time and are fantastic. You could always volunteer to be a parent helper? Both of mine have done camps too and loved it.

Have you got a local army cadets you can join from 12 or Air Cadet or Sea cadets?

My DSs just love it. Especially the camps but they are twice a year and optional (well not optional at all according to the DCs but definitely not all kids go)

Adults will never be alone with your child.
Older scouts will age out at 14. Tents are single sex.
Parent volunteers are always welcomed at camp.

DH was an assistant cub leader. Both of our kids passed through his pack whilst he was there and he finally stopped then the youngest was half way through scouts.
I have friends who always go to camp with their children's units. I actually feel a bit sorry for them not having the opportunity to go away with their friends without their mum being there to supervise. (I did with our kids at cub camp, but DH always worked with the groups that our kids weren't in.

My DD and DS are scouts and cubs, they think its brilliant and so do i, my DH also volunteers. It teaches a different skill set than school - survival, cooking, looking after your community, fundraising, leadership skills, working as a team - they have gained such confidence since going, would highly recommend giving it a go.

You sound very risk averse. Scouting encourages children to learn things that are age appropriate but may seem too risky for that age. Eg my 14 year old went on a trip with others overnight camping all by themselves with a leader on the end of a mobile only (she checked in with them once at the campsite). It did amazing things for his sense of self, he learned his capability and resilience and resourcefulness through scouting and now he's an independent young man. I loved it for him and school would have never pushed those kinds of experiences as they are very risk averse in comparison. So you may want to think through the activities you want for your child and how you'll feel when these opportunities are presented to her. I love scouting and would encourage any kid to get stuck in- it'll be great for her.

I was very apprehensive and DD didn’t attend her first camp until she was 10. She’s now 18 and the friendships she has made there are totally different to the friends she had at school. She’s still at scouting and despite saying she would stop years ago, she still goes.

I totally understand your sensitivity, I had that too but I believe safeguarding isn’t just about preventing certain situations but also empowering a child to speak up when things don’t feel right.

Trans row aside that wasn’t what I read. It was poor paperwork safety in guiding as they don’t pay to have it done properly, a struggle to get volunteers which hinders activities …

… also DS1 was questioned about his time in scouts during the assessment day for his grad job. Which was interesting!

My kids are in scouts. No kids are allowed to be left alone with a leader. The leaders need a second adult/ witness at all times. Both mine love scouts, and it's been a super hobby for them. It's reasonably priced as run by volunteers, they've made new friends, and had lots of fun experiences.

My two did scouts all the way through. They also did football, cricket, swimming, refereeing. Now at 23 and 20 and off at uni they still refer to those years in scouts with their mates as the best.
Trips away, many over nighters, lots of time away from parents from a young age, expeditions, competitions, their group was amazing and am so grateful for the adults who gave up their time.
Risk v benefit? Wouldn’t hesitate.

That issue was the GG policy of being a female organisation that was allowing males to identify as female and not disclose when the unit was not single sex. It could have affected any unit, but the reality was the number of units affected was rather small.

The High Court clarification last year has forced GG to amend their policy. Adults will have to leave by April. There hasn't been clarification on young people; it wouldn't surprise me if they're left to age out of their section, but that's my guess.

The distinction between GG and scouting is that scouting is openly mixed-sex, however it wasn't always clear if single gender accomodation = single sex either.

Otherwise safeguarding practices are very similar in both organisations.

GG tends to be a bit more rigourous about risk assessing and specialised permits for adventurous activities and has lower insurance premiums due to fewer claims.

Both Scouting and Guiding are great organisations for safely allowing young people to develop their skills and grow in confidence.

The best defence against exploitation and abuse in any aspect of life is confidence.

When DS was in cubs etc. I made a point of being a very visible and engaged DP. Partly for altruistic reasons- genuinely wanted to support all the volunteers giving up so much of their time, and partly because on the rare chance there was any abuse they are less likely to go for DCs where the DPs are heavily involved and can see if anything going on. Same principle applied to other activities like mini rugby etc.

Scouts is fantastic. Does your child not leave the house? It’s not boarding school. They literally go to the village hall for 90 minutes and learn about how to safely build a campfire. Or go to the local climbing wall for a session. Or go kayaking.

It’s much safer from a safeguarding perspective than sports (my dc does both), as there is no getting changed into kit, no physical contact, no long training days away from home. It’s literally an after school club. There are usually two overnight camps a year, but they don’t have to go. That said, i cannot imagine how any abuse would ever occur at one. Children are in tents of 2-3, no adults ever allowed in their tents, no other indoor spaces. Very well supervised with multiple adults.

As someone who has experienced sexual abuse and with several close family members who have been convicted of sexual abuse (who did have contact with my children), scouting is one setting where I’ve never had concerns about my dc and their safety. That said at the age for scouts (10), you should have already equipped your dc with the life skills to trust their gut and speak up if anything makes them uncomfortable. They will have years of school residentials and enrichment trips to come where they need to be confident looking out for themselves. Mine has been on a 6 day school residential in Europe every year since she was 11, which was much more haphazardly supervised than anything in scouting.

Never mind everything online. My dc are very closely monitored online and have no social media until they are 16. But other friends are on TikTok and Snapchat talking to all sorts of creepy grown men. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I’m quite comfortable with mine spending Wednesday 7-8:30pm doing science experiments with scouts than being home chatting with weirdos on Fortnite like their peers.

Absolutely this re online grooming and abuse.

Things have changed a lot, yes in the past wrongs were done but safeguarding is much improved and you have to weigh up all the positives they learn, mine did camps from young and it was very well organised

Op needs to get some help for her anxiety as it’s clear she is falling into thought traps- catastrophising, all or nothing thinking, selective thinking , fortune telling…. to name but a few. To force that onto a child is concerning.

One of my children was abused outside of school or any social club. I am able to think rationally and if I had younger children it would not stop them from doing things to push the there is an abuser on every corner narrative. It’s not healthy.

PP have posted great advice and experiences about Scouting which I would echo.

One area which I would urge you to consider is your comment that you can’t explain grooming to her.
i assume she goes to high school so these opportunities that you are concerned about for Scouting are freely available at school. You need to be having appropriate conversations with her about being safe both in person and online (which is actually where the biggest risk is currently)
have a look on NSPCC and similar websites for guidance on having these conversations, consent, etc etc.

Scouting will be the least of your worries as she grows older and explores the world. I hope you do let her join as both myself and my children had fabulous experiences and it helps with so many life skills and confidence boosting.

Abuse has already affected your family and I’m so sorry for that, but don’t let it limit your daughter and her opportunities.

The safeguarding concern that OP has is almost entirely caused by men. The lack of men in guides solves that problem more than any safeguarding policy will.

Scouts is great and is usually run by multiple volunteers. In fact a lot of groups are at risk of no longer running due to lack of volunteers so maybe you could sign yourself up too.

My son was happy to do camps when younger but has become a bit more of a homebody as he has got older so hasn't been on one in a while. It isn't compulsory. He just goes to the weekly sessions (though it is a shame as he misses out on some great activities they do at camp).