to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

My sole point is that women can be heavy sleepers too. That's it.

Yes, which is why I asked you if you believe your baby would've been removed from your care had you been single, or do you think you just sleep that heavily because you have a DH who you know will deal/wake you up 🤷‍♂️

My question has nothing to do with any other poster.

A lot of women put up with it

It feels like fewer as time goes by, the younger generations - partly through listening and being able to ask on websites like this - seem to be wising up to this

Men are clearly responding by throwing toys out of prams and blaming women for the fact they are being overlooked as a decent partner. Instead of you know thinking about it.

One of the many qualities about H I love us he will call out other men’s behaviour, does not hide the fact he adores his kids and family. Our teen boys will do the same.

It’s for men to sort out. Some are trying.

@INX yes thats exactly what I had, alongside complaints of 'I shouldn't be praising the bare minimum' except it wasn't the bare minimum.

But overall it turned into a lovely thread of nice stories and wasn't too derailed - I'll probably do another one for valentines day and await the backlash 🤣

@INX As far as I'm aware, Lardychops Yesterday at 23:32 is the only person to mention kids being removed because their single parent doesn't hear them crying.

My sole point is that women can be heavy sleepers too. That's it.

A little rebuke to those people who insist on saying not my Nigel / not all men / women are just as bad 🙈🙈

It’s about men being arseholes, very much linked with them deserting their kids / not paying to support their upbringing.

‘Out of 10 men, 1 makes a sexual joke directed at a woman, 2 laugh alone, 3 don't find it funny but still chuckle to fit in, and 4 say nothing, pretending they didn't hear it at all. Not a single one speaks up, and not a single one stops it. Later, aside from the man who made the joke, the other nine all believe the same thing: men like that are a minority and most men aren't like this, seeing themselves as part of the "good majority".

However, from the perspective of the woman being harassed, there is no big difference between them because the laughter, the silence, and the looking away all create the same environment. When women say most men are the same, this is what they mean: while not every man harasses women, most men participate in protecting the system that does.’

While not every man deserts their kids, they sure as hell protect the system that does.

This thread is about crap Dads. Can you clarify the relevance of your comment please.

No, I've just checked and I'm definitely not confusing you with another poster?

You said it started in the maternity hospital (not hearing your baby cry) and was then 'ongoing'.

Maybe your just unlucky. Most of the time you can. None of my friends would put up with the shit you seem to think is normal.

@INX

Are you saying your baby would've been removed from your care if you were a single mother?

Er, no. I think you're confusing me with another poster.

Or that you just didn't hear the baby because you knew DH would deal/wake you?

Maybe, I don't know. To be honest I haven't thought about it in years before this thread reminded me.

In the 15 years I've been on Mumsnet, I don't think I've ever seen a thread where the OP hasn't got slated for starting a cheerful thread appreciating their DP, and encouraging others to post about their lovely DPs.

Something about it just rubs some women up the wrong way, and there's calls of 'smug' or 'this thread should've had a trigger warning' etc.

It's a shame really.

@ChillingWithMySnowmies to be fair I made a post at christmas asking for stories of decent men who got it right (after seeing loads of stories of bad ones) and got slaughtered for it 🤣 so I don't think telling the good stories works either!

Agree with everything you say OP. And stats would easily back you up.

I’d also like to add - what really should upset every tax payer - is that because of all these feckless ‘fathers’, the state ends up having to pay out to support the mum and children (rightly so) that the man has abandoned / doesn’t pay for. Makes me so angry!

And this isn’t even touching on the psychological / social impact the useless man has on the children he brought into the world. The consequences of which go on and on.

Are you saying your baby would've been removed from your care if you were a single mother?

Or that you just didn't hear the baby because you knew DH would deal/wake you?

You can very much assess after child number 1.

It wasn't just that time, it was ongoing. I think DH got up more than I did. But as I say, I'm probably an outlier.

Yes can assess way before that. Do they do their share of the life admin, do you cook wash up, clean etc etc 50:50. If those things fall to the women in the relationship then the child raising will as well.

Totally agree. Biologically Mum's have to feed the baby so must wake up. It's in our DNA to hear them.

My DH didn't always hear the baby but he always took his turn if I gave him a nudge. A baby just having a little snuffle wakes up Mum.

I second the posters that say you only hear those things because MN is an outlet for women to share their perspective.

I must say though, and only from my own experience that I used to think I had to do all those things - prepare food when I was going away, set everything up with DC1, with DC2 I stopped because it was all too much and learnt that I was telling myself DH wasn’t capable - I just had this urge to make sure everything was done. And the crying in the night - women are programmed to be so in tune with our babies that it’s like a switch. Just last night DH took our youngest who’s been so ill he’s inconsolable at night and I went in the spare room because I took him the night before. I still woke up and felt this uncontrollable tension in my whole body hearing him scream. I’m not saying that all men are wonderful creatures without flaws but I do also think sometimes women are a lot more reactive because of the way we are wired.

Reminds me of my BIL.

My sister was away for 4 nights on a work course. BIL left with 6 year old and 2 year old.

Granny #1 (Maternal) pretty much looked after the kids from 8am to 8pm everyday. Kept them fed and washed, school runs etc. And, BIL dumped all the laundry on the other Granny (Paternal) and picked up his homemade casserole/lasagna dinner and packed lunch box 😂.

The trouble sometimes is ladies facilitating men and Granny's wishing to nurture at every opportunity. Men should be neglected and not fussed over all the time.

Funnily enough, when my DH was in hospital for a week when DS was little, no one bothered their backside with me! I had to manage school runs, work, hospital visits myself.

Actions speak louder than words. How did the man behave BEFORE getting the woman pregnant. Was he always honest, kind and respectful? That's a very good indicator. Or did the woman know he had a tendency for being unreliable, dishonest, lying, aggression, etc? I'm not saying all men of course. Some are very good at masking their true self. But if a woman spends a lot of time with him before getting pregnant rather than rushing in, I'm sure the "bad" ones show red flags in some ways. Yes, some man will be nothing but brilliant boyfriends, husbands, etc., and will suddenly change but I'd say it was a small minority. Pretty sure red flags are there if you look in most cases.

YANBU but women also need to think more carefully about who they're having children with. Yes, I know some men change after marriage/children, but a lot were selfish arseholes beforehand and it's a little strange to think they'd automatically change once they had children.

My sister is a case in point. She married the "wrong" man - I knew it, our parents knew it, her friends knew it, but she was "in luuuuuve" and refused to see him for who he really was. Even a pub fight with our uncle didn't knock sense into her. She clearly didn't mind him going out boozing 2/3 nights per week, spending hundreds on booze/late night fast food and coming home steaming drunk in the early hours. Didn't mind him going golfing and watching footie every weekend, nor boozy weekends and stag parties. She thought it was all hilarious. UNTIL she had her first baby and expected (why??) him to change his ways and step up to help her - of course he didn't change one iota and she was basically left to bring up the child alone!

I agree op

the bar is set so low for men in general

when they do something that is just basic good parenting they are applauded

when they clean/cook/keep a home running they are applauded

when they are considerate decent partners they are elevated to being men of inspiration and their partners shouldn’t feel lucky to have managed to find a good one

it’s depressing

Because presumably your body had just been through the trauma of giving birth.

Not quite the same as dad rolling over and farting, while mum gets up for the 3rd time that night.