to be fed up of crap fathers being excused from basic parenting?

Nobody said fathers can't have a positive impact. But that mothers are held to significantly higher standards to be considered even good, never mind a great mother, is unarguable. this is not an attack on fathers. It’s a reality check on the standards society applies.

Exactly this especially given how hard it is to support a family/get a house on one wage these days

And this is part of the problem. How about it’s the dad’s fault for not role modeling to the son how to share the load and teaching the son skills so they can look after a house independently?

Genetically men aren't wired to hear the baby, genetically something changes in women when the become mothers to hear their baby and react quicker when they give birth.

However there are alot of women who make excuses for their men.

My husband is a great Dad. He's currently downstairs giving my DD her breakfast while I have a shower. He has had days off work to look after her when I can't (my job pays better and its harder to cover me than him). He cooks tea and washes up most nights as my daughter wants to be with me after a day in nursery.

Its about sharing the load. But I did the majority of night wakes because I heard her and got up. We did take it in turns for a while but I couldnt sleep on his turn because I was listening for her. Now he does it when I'm not well.

Just have to play to your strengths

Genetically men aren't wired to hear the baby, genetically something changes in women when the become mothers to hear their baby and react quicker when they give birth.

However there are alot of women who make excuses for their men.

My husband is a great Dad. He's currently downstairs giving my DD her breakfast while I have a shower. He has had days off work to look after her when I can't (my job pays better and its harder to cover me than him). He cooks tea and washes up most nights as my daughter wants to be with me after a day in nursery.

Its about sharing the load. But I did the majority of night wakes because I heard her and got up. We did take it in turns for a while but I couldnt sleep on his turn because I was listening for her. Now he does it when I'm not well.

Just have to play to your strengths

Small minded rubbish. Fathers and Mothers naturally have very different approaches but can have an equally positive or negative impact on a child.

People are considered good or bad parents generally because they are one or the other. Pretty condescending and insulting to suggest people think a dad is good because he takes his kid for a maccy ds.

yeah maybe, except for what is considered bad father and bad mother are not the same. Nowhere near. Mum must ensure optimal cognitive, emotional, nutritional and spiritual development. Dad take kids still in their PJs to McD and 'aww at least he remembered to feed them'

Nonsense. Bad fathers get called out for it as much as bad mothers.

This post is bordering on hysterical.

THIS!!

And on top of all this some women feel obliged to provide sexual services to these useless lazy men.

A lot of men lie about this.

It enrages me too. And the men who choose to have children but then whine about parenting them.

Totally agree
My ex has my oldest neurotypical Son over night twice a month at he's parents as he still lives there after 5 years since we split he is 50 years old
But our youngest has profound disabilities and special needs he never has had him over night at he's parents as they don't even let him visit but he won't move out he doesn't have to cook clean do washing for them or himself or anything
He see's my youngest only on a Sunday during the day takes him on a bus ride to McDonald's then back to me
He has full access to our children I have never stopped him but doesn't want them anymore then that
He doesn't have to do school runs, meetings with special school or disability social worker or occupational therapy or parents evening's or dentist's doctors opticians
I have to do everything
Won't even help get school uniforms even if I give him the money for the things they need
Ie my older son needed a scientific calculator he had seen one he wanted in town but no website and needed it the next day I had parents evening with my youngest at special school I asked him to get it for him as he finishes work at 4pm and was a 5 minute walk to the shop I said I would transfer the money and meet him later to get it from him after parents evening but he wouldn't do it eeerrrr so I had to ask a friend to get it for me
But the school would have blamed me if he didn't have one not him and I think that is out of order

Yes, but what gets my goat more than that is women moaning on MN about it, as if we can do anything. If you're not happy with your husband's behaviour regarding child care - moan at him, not us. Women should think long and hard before having children with certain men. In South Korea, women are actively choosing against marriage because men don't do their share.

No I said men should grow a backbone. Fundamentally the fact is women care about babies far more than men, generally. You'd have to really want kids to go through pregnancy. Men would never do it. And if you want kids your partner is probably going to assume you want to take care of them, otherwise why have them? You can't force men to care about childrearing. So the alternative is he says no to having kids-would you prefer that?

As I said before it is important to assess your partner way before having a baby. If you're worried about talking to your partner - don't have a baby with them. There is absoluite no reason for women to be martyrs all the time. It is never a good idea to be totally financially dependant on someone else it isn't the 1950s anymore.

Agreed. Or that some women have been so worn down, emotionally abused and gaslit for so long they can’t tell up from down. People really need to develop empathy skills.

Really? You cant understand that not all women have the confidence to strike out on their own? That not all women can earn enough to get a deposit together, or have a supportive family waiting to help or take her in? Or that a new mum might not want to risk their husband storming out if she tells him to get his shit together? You really cant imagine that?

That may well be the case. I never understand why these women put up with it rather than telling their husbands to get their shit together.

I have heard it said that the most important decision we will ever make, is who we decide to have a child / children with.

How do you explain the women who first experience domestic violence for the first time when they are pregnant? How are they to blame?

@HazelMember I think the the posts on this thread aren’t referring to men who don’t show their true colours until pregnancy.

YANBU but women also need to think more carefully about who they're having children with. Yes, I know some men change after marriage/children, but a lot were selfish arseholes beforehand and it's a little strange to think they'd automatically change once they had children.

I agree with you @taxguru

I posted this upthread, but it is worth saying again

I see this time and time again in here from women who are TTC with men who clearly aren't interested in parenthood - men who prioritise drugs, alcohol or gaming over their partners. Why are these women so deluded that their sperm donors are going to miraculously going to change? Even worse are the women who already have children and want more with their useless sperm donors.

No, i really challenge this. I dont think its lying or masking. My experiences and observations would say its a genuine change that occurs stimulated by the lack of autonomy and freedom that can come with parenthood, the challenges of maintainimg a romantic relationship etc. Throw an interested co-worker or hobby partner into the mix and its not hard to see how it happens

@frozendaisy

It’s for men to sort out. Some are trying.

Meanwhile back in the real world, that will never happen. Therefore, it's up to women to choose more wisely and to ditch their useless men when they change into feckless ones (assuming they weren't previously). Otherwise nothing will ever change. Relying on good men to change the bad ones will take a couple of generations (even if it actually happened) so will be of no help at all to todays' younger women with children or about to have children. Women need to do what they can to protect themselves rather than constantly harp on about "perfect world" solutions that will never happen in their lifetimes! And no, this isn't blaming women, it's just common sense that women should do all they can to protect and look after themselves.