Is this cheating, would you forgive this?

@Meg878o I know two people who had similar incidents. The first person, their HR dept brushed it under the carpet because the man was about to retire. The staff felt hurt and let down that something clearly unacceptable was minimised.

The second person (it was only one incident [if that's to be believed]) realised immediately that they'd overstepped a boundary with their comments. He apologised to the person involved and to others who had overheard. He also went on a course to help understand his own behaviour and what is intolerable in a work place environment. Workplace took it seriously and in the end it was agreed that he would leave of his own volition. Workplace only took this approach because he'd recognised for himself what was wrong and had chosen to do something about it. His dw 'forgave' him because he was genuinely contrite. But she hasn't forgotten the impact it had on their family life having to relocate for a new job.

Your husband has done none of this. How will his behaviour ever change if he doesn't think it was anything more than banter? What will happen if he gets another job - will he be just the same? Does he really think it is OK to objectify women's bodies. Is he so unable to read people's signals / body language that he can't see that he is being inappropriate?

How would you have reacted is the banter had been racial. Because he should be held to the same standards.

Well it wouldn't really be my place to forgive would it? Only the women he has harassed and made uncomfortable have the right to do that. However, if you mean could I overlook it and carry on as though it hadn't happened, then no. Because this sort of behaviour is a really strong indicator of a man's character. Not only does he see women as sex objects, he hadn't even the respect or decency to keep his thoughts to himself. And that's not someone I'd want in my life. Plus, tbh, I'd be ashamed and embarrassed to be linked to him.

I don't think I could live with that. The behaviour is bad enough, but the denial when it passed a barrier for immediate termination for gross misconduct is unforgivable. He should be grovelling at you feet for forgiveness, not taking about "banter".

I'm so sorry that he has blown your world apart.

In case anyone hasn't mentioned - your DDs and DSs will pick up his unspoken attitude that women are their for the benefit and enjoyment of men if you don't show them that you won't accept misogyny.

I think this is much, much more important than whether or not he 'cheated'.

FWIW my father was like this - he literally couldn't relate to women other than in a sexualised way, and eventually that included me. It was an absolute fuckup.

It's irrelevant whether it's cheating. Of course it's not cheating! But I wouldn't be with a man who thought, acted, and spoke like that.

and what if there were women who weren't offended and didn't complain......that's where the cheating happens.

I agree with the PP who said the company wouldn't lightly dismiss someone with 17 years service. I can believe that he doesn't think he's done anything wrong because he's probably behaved like this for years. However, anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows this is not acceptable. Anyone with an ounce of empathy should understand that he is making colleagues feel uncomfortable. He is a stupid, rude, misogynistic, entitled bully. Despite being sacked he's still refusing to accept responsibility. Staying with him will damage your self respect and, eventually, your mental health. He will also have a negative influence on your children.

It wasn't accepted by women! It was suffered, not accepted. Men accepted it, but they would...

And thanks to the likes of Andrew Tate, online porn being easier for people to access, the attitude towards women is still bad, in fact it seems to be getting worse. Look at the BBC programme on the MET police for example. Look at the idea of Labour to teach boys at school about misogyny. Look at the sheer amount of online abuse against women, threatening rape, death etc. Look at the amount of women being strangled during sex without consent because the porn watched by men and boys thinks this is normal. The massive increase of sexual crime towards women and girls is just.... bloody awful. This doesn't show me things have changed from your days in a bar, does it you?

The only difference is the laws that are occasionally brought in, the last being the legal duty on employers that people are not harassed in the work place. This was only 2023, believe it or not. This is a shift in the law and companies protecting themselves from being sued or criminalised - not a shift in attitude with men.

You saying that you have to make sure you don't touch people - well done, lol,. But make sure you call out any other men you see touching women without consent because men need to change once and for all and it's not happening any time soon.

I may be in the minority but I actually believe his predatory behave is far worse than cheating.

He is a sexual predator, a pest, making other women feel so uncomfortable in their place of work, they had to complain.

Have you any idea how hard it is for women to do this?

Have you any idea just how uncomfortable she must have felt to make a complaint?

He was with them 17 years and dismissed him?

It must have been shockingly bad that they didn't give him a huge formal kickass warning that would have put the serious frightener's on him.

Or did they and he just ignored it?

He would make my skin absolutely crawl and he would never touch me again.

Regarding the children I would be clear that Daddy has behaved very badly at work, lost his job, and mummy no longer wants to live with him anymore.

Like hell would I take responsibility for the relationship ending because he is a predatory arsehole whose job fired him.

That poor colleague. Bet it isn't a once off too.

This is why you end it. He is not even mortified at what he said. Not sorry at all and thinks it's no big deal despite losing his job. Not one ounce of introspection.

Exactly. Does he do this to the young male staff? Touch them on the arm when they're having a conversation? Comment on their arses and how they like it. No. Because he'd probably get a punch in the face.

And this sort of behaviour isn't about 'cheating' or 'poor menz who the world has left behind'- it is designed to be unpleasant and unnerving. It's the worst type of misogynistic power play. He doesn't want the girls to come onto him or be flattered- he wants them upset and disconcerted.
How can you respect a man like that?

I wouldn't class it as cheating but I'd be out of there. If he thinks it is appropriate to behave that badly that it costs him his job and not see an issue then I wouldn't trust him at all in future as cheating isn't a far leap. If just one of the woman replied in kind, I'm sure he wouldn't have said no.

It's not cheating, but that's because it's (rightly) putting his coworkers off. Might be a sign he would if he got the chance though.

And no, I wouldn't forgive him.

Not because it's unforgiveable, nearly all things are forgiveable.

But only if someone is sorry, genuinely sorry for what they've done, not because they've been caught and punished, but because they realise it was wrong and they shouldn't have done it.

He's nowhere near there. He's not in a state where forgiveness is possible or appropriate. Any attempt at forgiveness where someone isn't sorry is IMO just another word for denial.

What an awful position for you to be in, OP.

When it comes to thinking through what you do next, it's important to remember there's no right or wrong choice.

Could you afford your NDH moving out for a few months, to give you time to think, and to show yourself you and your DC will be fine without him?

Not only is he a predator, he is insistent that he has the right to be a predator.

Thinks he was stitched up. Thinks he had the right to sexually harass his female colleagues.

Why don't you go to counselling to sort out your feelings? You know you are in a terrible position. You live with someone you despise, but your children love him and splitting with him may smash up your economy and the rest of your home.

I don't know what you should do about it, but at least if you face up to how you do feel, you'll feel better about whatever choice you make.

I’ve read this story a few times over the last few months. Is it the same poster or are multiple men being sacked for being a creep?
obviously you’re not being unreasonable.
were you even in the meeting or have you seen evidence of why he was sacked? I would be worried he’s given you a very sugar coated version, not the full extent of harassing female colleges to the point he needed to be sacked. Wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t already messed around with other women tbh, and if he hasn’t he clearly wants to.

Have you printed out to him that it can’t have been that innocuous of he has been fired from his job for this!p?
That after investigation, his company decided it was NOT ‘just lad’s banter’ but wholly inappropriate and unacceptable.

Does he have a reason as to why this ‘banter’ is unexcusable at work but somehow should be seen as ok at home?

Sexually harassing young women in the workplace is worse than cheating OP!

So he’s been doing for years and finally
someone reported him. What a horrible man.

TACTILE with her 🤢

He is a sleaze and a creep. I’d be so overwhelmingly ashamed and embarrassed that I’d married someone so disgusting and was associated with him in public.

I think you need to appreciate that a) you are not blowing up your children’s lives if you end it - he did that when ehe behaved the way he did’ and b) the impact of allowing them to raised in close proximity to a man like this is worse than living without him, especially if you have daughters (though now I think about it and the rise in toxic masculinity, any boys are at risk also).

I’d go and speak to Citizen’s advice and go through your finances and what a divorce would mean in terms of keeping your home, finances (enquire about UCs and other benefits should you chose to move on without him), childcare, you being able to work etc.

Talking it through, putting it all down on paper with an independent 3rd party, may help you get over the fear of kicking him out/ending it.

He may struggle to get another job now, so you will essentially have to claim UC etc anyway.

He's a predator. Who knows what his behaviour could escalate to.
Do you really want your kids to see that you choose to remain married to a man who demeams women (indirectly condoning his actions)? Or, even worse, for them to be influenced by his misogyny? Boys will repeat the behaviour and girls will accept it from future partners.
You know what to do.
(And you can safely assume that his sackable offence was not limited to touching a woman on the arm, whatever he may have told you.)

Eeewwww definitely bin him !! X

I think that's a bit harsh. It's just a thread on a forum so who cares if there's more than one of them? She's obviously struggling to make the decision to leave him and needs a bit of support.

OP, you know really what the right thing to do here is. All the posts are going to tell you you'd be a fool to put up with being treated like this. But it's never easy to end a marriage. Good luck.