To seriously recommend Ireland

Ok, the Magdalen laundries, for one. Maybe 'patriarchal' would be the wrong term to use. I've long believed that women can oppress other women as well or better than any man can, so you could well be correct.

Can you give some examples because I would find it's a very matriarchal society.

Day to day anything to do with politics, laws, schools, health etc…it’s always just the state that’s relevant you see.

I don't know if you meant it to come across this way, but I find this comment to be extremely condescending: 'its always just the state that's relevant you see' sounds like you are teaching me facts based on your perspective. I live abroad so don't have a group of Irish people at my current disposal to ask, but I just heard my Northern Irish husband telling someone on the phone that 'We'll be in Ireland at the start of March" and I know that our destination isn't in the Republic and I am pretty sure the recipient on the phone understood too. If someone told me they toured Ireland, I would assume they visited the North too.

I grew up in a Nationalist town with an Irish speaking community, with strong links to Irish traditional music, song and poetry and my ancestors were most definitely Irish. The state is an artificial imposition that a huge amount of the Irish in the North resent and do not identify with-and I say that as someone who isn't particularly politically minded.

This is not a case of a second generation descendent of Irish people arguing that they are from Ireland due to descent. I am someone from Ireland reading comments from someone telling me that when someone refers to Ireland, most people will assume its the state of Ireland because thats what's important.

Ireland is Ireland and it goes far beyond the NHS or currency. Northern Ireland is the occuppied part of Ireland and is no less part of Ireland for it. When I hear 'Ireland', I think island. I am sure I am not alone.

In many ways! It's still a very patriarchal society as far as I can tell. Obviously, a lot of that is historical, but these attitudes take a very long time to die out.

I agree, and I loathe Paris! Still like it more than Dublin, though. Don't get me wrong, many Irish people are absolutely lovely, that is one stereotype I can kind of get behind. The town of Dublin, though, not so much. Expensive and dreary.

In what way?

I agree.
villages pockets outside of dublin north and south alike are amazing. Food fun relax etc. But the city centre is grim and i wish the council would invest money to bring people back in and to clean it and make it more attarctive. As my teens say rhere is nothing to do in dublin and prefer london or paris

But they are both Korean. As here, you re irish.

my sister in law (married jn the family like me) is from the north and she is irish first and foremost, and yes she also happen to have a UK passport.
but she defines herself as irish and isnt a nationalist.

Yeah Dublin isn’t great. I mean you might have a fun night in Temple Bar on a hen or something but that’s about it. I hope no one bases all of Ireland on Dublin City!
Galway, Kerry, Waterford, Donegal etc are on a different level.
My daughter lives in DunLaoghaire though which is lovely to be fair.

Why do you say it is women friendly? I actually think a lot of Irish attitudes to women are quite regressive.

I’m sorry if this is shocking you . I’d be interested to hear what others further north in ROI think.
From Derry to Kerry is Ireland.
I would say a lot of people feel Ireland is Ireland, stolen land, the Catholic communities in NI are very much considered Irish, the history and culture of Ireland is very much surrounded by the troubles, the bad deal we got loosing the 6 counties, as children in the 80’s we prayed for the people every night, relationships with NI and the republic have always been entwined, especially in the border counties and Dublin.

Yes, very true. People almost think you or I are a troublemaker for spouting up that Ireland is Ireland.

Both sides of the border have the same issues in different areas, people focus on the negative up the north, as certain areas are highlighted and they focus on the positive side in the Republic, when both sides have the same problems depending upon the area you live in….

The Malone road won’t have the same experience as Andersonstown or shankill, Nor will Malahide have the same experience as inner city Dublin.
It’s interesting to see the difference perspective on how the country runs based on personal experiences.

Also, just to add that I didn’t actually say upthread that ‘people rarely mean the island of Ireland when discussing Ireland’ as you said I did.

I actually said ‘I think when lots of Irish people say Ireland they generally mean the state also known as the Republic of Ireland, not the island’. I added that I thought Irish people in Northern Ireland may feel differently about that.

(While I did use the word ‘rarely’ it was only in reference to my own opinion, ie I rarely think this...)

So you did misunderstand and misquote me a little bit I think. I wasn’t undermining the opinions of those in NI. I acknowledge people there feel differently, but it’s just that we don’t all feel the same way about this and the confusion on this thread has made that clear.

As I said I recognise that people from different parts of the island probably think differently about this.

I only brought it up because there did seem to be some confusion on the thread about where exactly we were talking about when talking about Ireland, eg some posters were quoting crime statistics from NI and others were saying they weren’t relevant; a pp mentioned Belfast and another said that’s not relevant etc.

To check I wasn’t going mad, I did a quick survey of the people I happened to be with tonight. I simply asked, ‘If I said ‘Ireland’, would you think I was talking about the country (aka ROI) or the island…ie plus or minus NI?’
They all said they’d assume the country. Not the island. Not including NI.

All the people I spoke to tonight were from Cork. Day to day anything to do with politics, laws, schools, health etc…it’s always just the state that’s relevant you see.

I consider people from NI to be Irish obviously (if they do themselves), but if I were referring to, say, Belfast I’d always say it was in Northern Ireland, not in Ireland. I wouldn’t really use the term North of Ireland instead of Northern Ireland.

To say that people rarely mean the island of Ireland when discussing Ireland literally undermines the lived experience of hundreds of thousands of people living on the island who consider their home in the North of Ireland to be in Ireland!
I’m very sorry that you find it undermining, but I think what I said is probably true for a majority on the island. I think it’s certainly true where I am in the far south. Unless talking in particular contexts, Ireland now means ROI here.

I’m sorry if this is shocking you @Icelap. I’d be interested to hear what others further north in ROI think.

Yes, the bungalows... 😱 🤣

Living in Ireland is different to visiting. Even for native Irish it’s hard to meet and make friends if you’ve moved to the area. I’m sick of the rain and it’s soooo dark in winter. Too much traffic on the roads, the country roads are not built for all these ridiculously oversized SUV’s. We’re living in dhs home town ten years now and I only finally feel settled.
dh and I always talk about how much friendlier the people up north are compared to the republic

Growing up, it never crossed my mind that not being part of the Republic of Ireland bit of Ireland meant I wasn't from Ireland. In fact, we just referred to it as 'Down South', possibly in the way people in Manchester would refer to London. To say that people rarely mean the island of Ireland when discussing Ireland literally undermines the lived experience of hundreds of thousands of people living on the island who consider their home in the North of Ireland to be in Ireland!

That’s totally different. You can’t just drive between North Korea and South Korea in 5 minutes to do your shopping and go on a night out. North Korea is literally a horrific dictatorship. There is no comparison between these 2 states and Ireland/northern Ireland.

I do think your MIL to be (at the time) made an extremely insensitive comment and I’m sorry you experienced that.

But that’s not what I meant.

I know there are loads of Irish people in NI.
I wasn’t talking about Irish people or where they live.

What I meant is…if we’re talking about ‘Ireland’, in my head that means the state (ie ROI) not the island unless it’s specifically clear from the context that the Island is meant (rarely). So I would have assumed this thread was about ROI.

I did say I thought people in NI might think differently. I think people in GB do too tbh.

I live 20 minutes away from the border . Have lived in the republic all my life but when I go out shopping or out for food I spend roughly half my time up north or down south and I have family living in the north for years. Not a nationalist either and yes there are some differences but regardless we are all living on the same island clearly.

In Ireland?

It was my day to day experience working for an Irish company, yes. And not just mine.

They are obviously both still Korea. Just as Northern Ireland is still Ireland.

Thanks for the map. I grew up there so I know that Northern Ireland is under British rule. However, it is not wishful thinking to say that it is in Ireland. I am Irish because I was born and raised on the island of Ireland. My official nationality is Irish even though I was born in the North. Northern Ireland is technically a part of the UK, but it is also part of Ireland at the same time. I am by no means a hard-core Nationalist but to many Irish people, Ireland is all of Ireland, despite the differing political situations.