To seriously recommend Ireland

I found that I was catcalled far more in Dublin than in any other European city, which was a real surprise. When I complained about this to a group of women I met drinking, they laughed it off and said I should take it as a compliment. I know that's anecdata, and no doubt I will be told that that is atypical, but I honestly don't see that happening in London or possibly even Paris.

Its always just the state is relevant you see.

That is what you said and I am hardly twisting your words by paraphrasing and using the word 'important' as they seem quite interchangeable in this context. I 100% support your right to your opinion on what constitutes Ireland but you have been presenting your opinion as fact and then following it up with 'but that's just my opinion' in the next message, and that has been a little confusing for me.

It is a very complicated and loaded issue which requires a lot of time and dedication to do it justice on mumsnet, and I don't have either to give today. Not everyone sees Northern Ireland as being a part of Ireland and that's ok. I am going to leave it now as we are going around in circles but thank you for your time and have a nice Sunday.

I worked and lived with two Irish women back in the 90s and the pair of them were total bitches who didn’t do their jobs properly cos they were super lazy. It’s a no from me.

I am someone from Ireland reading comments from someone telling me that when someone refers to Ireland, most people will assume its the state of Ireland because thats what's important.

I did not say the state is what’s important!!!!
Again you’re misunderstanding and twisting what I said.

I said the laws and government and health and schooling system of ROI are what’s relevant to me personally. They’re all different in NI as it’s part of the UK. The health system in NI is not relevant to my life, for example. When I speak of (complain about!) the health services in Ireland I mean HSE services, not the NHS. That does not mean I think Northern Ireland unimportant!

Also, I never for one minute said people in Northern Ireland aren’t Irish.

I’m just explaining how I see things. I’m not trying to preach or to be condescending in any way. And I’m sorry you don’t like it but that’s the way I feel about NI at the moment. When people say Ireland I do not think of the island for the most part. I think ROI. I thought this thread was about ROI, which I always refer to as Ireland.

I would vote for a united Ireland if it could be achieved peacefully which I don’t think it could at the moment, if that makes any difference to how you view what I say 🤷‍♀️

Well fair play to you .
Unfortunately you seem to be in the rainiest of thIs countries now!

Là fhéile Bríde sona duit to you and your family.

A day for strong Irish women.😍

Not at all. Irish mothers are not at home baking in an apron all day, you seem to be picturing the Ireland that existed 50 years ago.

Being the 'matriarch' still presupposes that being a mother is the most important thing a woman can be. I don't see what is progressive about that, if I'm honest. I think that 'matriarchy' and 'patriarchy' are just two slightly different ways of framing the same set of values.

What are the particular attitudes to women that you find regressive @Gahr?

I agree. I love history and would never dare living in a country without knowing their history.
i havent lived in France for over 20yrs (US, UK and now Ireland) and I have spend 3yrs in my childhood in Africa for dad’s job. So I feel I am allowed an opinion 😉🙂

What are the particular attitudes to women that you find regressive @Gahr?

Why do you say it is women friendly? I actually think a lot of Irish attitudes to women are quite regressive.

Well you are more than welcome here.

And I do admire your knowledge of history!

Living in a country no matter where you were born gives more of an insight than any casual visitor.

Irish women are tough, not really the type to be bossed around or talked down to. Irish mammy is the matriarch of the family and very much raises her children to respect her, including her son.
I don’t find the attitude regressive overall, there are some disrespectful men, men who are violent, but the majority are respectful and progressive.

@Martymcfly24

thank you very much. I agree with you. I find your country very progressive and I am grateful that they have welcomed me and my girls, and my husband returning, with opened arms.

If you are French, why is your opinion relevant? I have Irish relatives, and I do not find it a progressive country. I don't live there, it is true, but I do have some insight into the country. I think that your view is coloured by also having come from a highly Catholic country. The issues are far more complex than you make out.

If you are French, why is your opinion relevant? I have Irish relatives, and I do not find it a progressive country. I don't live there, it is true, but I do have some insight into the country. I think that your view is coloured by also having come from a highly Catholic country. The issues are far more complex than you make out.

If you are French, why is your opinion relevant? I have Irish relatives, and I do not find it a progressive country. I don't live there, it is true, but I do have some insight into the country. I think that your view is coloured by also having come from a highly Catholic country. The issues are far more complex than you make out.

Oh my god. You re being very confused. It s a very dark park of Irish History because the catholic were ruling.

after the civil war, ireland needed to find itself and they went from one ruler to the next. It was such a young country.

true the last one closed in 1983 but since rhere has been lots done, maybe more should be done though from the state to spologise but a big step has been reached.

however, when ireland joined the european union it was the poorest country and is now one of the richest. In like 50/60 yrs they ve built their country i see and I know very strong women, empowered and vocal, and I see no glass ceiling unlike old european countries (take mine for instance France and the UK).

they can still do more, and I wouldnt live in rural ireland, but I also wouldnt live in rural France and England.

it s not patriarchal anymore at all.

Why do you say it is women friendly? I actually think a lot of Irish attitudes to women are quite regressive.

Day to day anything to do with politics, laws, schools, health etc…it’s always just the state that’s relevant you see.

I don't know if you meant it to come across this way, but I find this comment to be extremely condescending: 'its always just the state that's relevant you see' sounds like you are teaching me facts based on your perspective. I live abroad so don't have a group of Irish people at my current disposal to ask, but I just heard my Northern Irish husband telling someone on the phone that 'We'll be in Ireland at the start of March" and I know that our destination isn't in the Republic and I am pretty sure the recipient on the phone understood too. If someone told me they toured Ireland, I would assume they visited the North too.

I grew up in a Nationalist town with an Irish speaking community, with strong links to Irish traditional music, song and poetry and my ancestors were most definitely Irish. The state is an artificial imposition that a huge amount of the Irish in the North resent and do not identify with-and I say that as someone who isn't particularly politically minded.

This is not a case of a second generation descendent of Irish people arguing that they are from Ireland due to descent. I am someone from Ireland reading comments from someone telling me that when someone refers to Ireland, most people will assume its the state of Ireland because thats what's important.

Ireland is Ireland and it goes far beyond the NHS or currency. Northern Ireland is the occuppied part of Ireland and is no less part of Ireland for it. When I hear 'Ireland', I think island. I am sure I am not alone.

Ok, the Magdalen laundries, for one. Maybe 'patriarchal' would be the wrong term to use. I've long believed that women can oppress other women as well or better than any man can, so you could well be correct.

Ok, the Magdalen laundries, for one. Maybe 'patriarchal' would be the wrong term to use. I've long believed that women can oppress other women as well or better than any man can, so you could well be correct.

I’m sorry if this is shocking you . I’d be interested to hear what others further north in ROI think.
From Derry to Kerry is Ireland.
I would say a lot of people feel Ireland is Ireland, stolen land, the Catholic communities in NI are very much considered Irish, the history and culture of Ireland is very much surrounded by the troubles, the bad deal we got loosing the 6 counties, as children in the 80’s we prayed for the people every night, relationships with NI and the republic have always been entwined, especially in the border counties and Dublin.