To thnk that airlines should not allow lap babies on flights?

It's not a safety guideline in America or south America though, as someone else pointed out.

Why are half the people on this thread pretending that babies are ‘just hold’ by their parents and make an argument that no one can hold onto them if there is an accident. We know that, that’s why it is mandatory to use a baby seat belt when the seat belt sign is on. Stewards check that they are wearing their belt, just as they do with adult passengers. Neither you nor baby won’t get away not wearing it, that’s an international safety guideline airlines need to adhere to.

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The bassinet is a thing only on long haul flights, in my experience.

Yes four. Don't be ridiculous, obviously you can take them out for that. But during turbulence they should be strapped in. Look it up for yourself. Babies have literally died because they were travelling on parents laps.

There is or has been a tremendous amount of controversy about this...the ATM general view as I understand it is:

In a high deceleration but generally survivable accident (e.g. a high speed runway excursion) it's unlikely an adult willl be able to hold onto an unrestrained infant.....they can become a projectile....

Unfortunately there is also some evidence from accidents and tests that infants seemingly safely restrained by lapbelts can be injured or worse due to the adult doubling up or "jack knifing" down onto the child..

Overall the evidence seems to point to it being the case that infant restrained in a forward facing car seat, properly attached to the aircraft seat, stands the best chance of survival...

....Now the regulators are aware of all of this but their policy is also often determined by other factors...for example affordibility of car seats and the cost of buying a aircraft seat for it might force a family to drive,.not fly....and that might increase risk to the infant......

We always book a seat, with some airlines you have to book via phone for a child under two.

You must be pretty dim or not travelled much. Not only are babies allowed on your lap, you MUST have them on your lap for take off, landing and any turbulence. It's a pain in the arse when you managed to put them to sleep in the little bassinet they provide or next to you, if you bought them a seat, and you have to wake them up.

I have actually bought a seat for my baby once and it was a waste of money, he wanted to be on my lap the whole time.

Although I assume this is not actually about safety or comfort but the audacity of someone to take a baby to a public place.

Of course any sensible parent wouldn’t put them in it for a 12 hour flight, and they’d need plenty of breaks in the same way you do when driving long distances. The same rules for car seat safety would apply.

The taxes are minimal - £25 when I’ve flown with both TUI and Ryanair - in comparison to the cost of a full paying seat on the flight.

There’s pros and cons to it, which is why I said “a part of me” agrees. A newborn baby, up until around 6 months was okay for us. Past that, it was tough. I did a 4.5 hour flight with DD at 23 months old, it was incredibly difficult, not to mention the passenger in front reclined their chair whilst she was on my lap (which is their right to do). It was at that point that I thought she’d have been much happier if she was comfortably strapped into her car seat, with some breaks. Not ideal given the length of the flight, but we’d do a car journey that length with regular breaks too on the odd occasion so a one-off flight doing the same wouldn’t have been a problem. Alas, she’s now over 2 so we can purchase her a seat without needing to take a car seat, so all is well.

strap a baby for 7/12 hours? How you will feed them , change their nappy? They should not be in a car seat for more than 2 hours. Do you even have kids and have these opinions?

Maybe they should put them in the the hand luggage above their heads.

A parent should not fall asleep holding a baby with a belt or no belt. Is simple as that. This doesnt make it dangerous to travel on the lap. Is the parent's behavior that makes it dangerous.

I actually thought lap babies had to be on the middle seat. That's where I have been every time I had one. It's to do with where the spare oxygen mask is kept, so if you have 2x DC under 2, you have to be in separate rows, you can't sit together.

It's only European airlines which do the additional belt thing. North American (and apparently South American) airlines don't use this. Arguably the additional belt is entirely pointless for the baby because it would not protect them from injury. The main point of it is to prevent them being flung around the cabin and injuring someone else (grim thought).

As others have said, you would usually have to phone up (we do the whole booking over the phone rather than call to amend after booking online). Not all staff are knowledgeable about the process though so it can be pretty painful trying to get it sorted.

We have always booked a seat for our infants except once when we travelled with a ten week old, I just carried her. The seat gives us extra space, somewhere for them to sleep, and also the extra footwell space is very handy for them to sit in and play. We've never done less than 4.5 hours, so it may not be worth it for a shorter flight, depends on you and the child.

We sometimes use something called a CARES device, it's a kind of harness that goes over the back of the seat and then you thread it through the adult seatbelt to make it like a four point harness. The airlines don't provide them, you have to take your own. They're okay, I think I bought it when I was quite anxious about my child being contained by just the adult seatbelt, I'm not sure I'd bother in future but it's an option.

We've also used a carseat once, this was long haul to the USA with Delta. There aren't a lot of airline approved seats though, and most UK airlines say it needs to be airline approved and also forward facing, which I just don't think exists unfortunately, so we haven't taken the carseat since.

Our kids are pretty well behaved (in my opinion anyway), the flights can be hard work but I always tell myself that however the kids are, it doesn't make it any quicker, you'll still get there at the same time and it'll be over soon. I'd rather not do the flights but we have family abroad where there is no other option.

We've always found that people around us have been very kind, and if they were annoyed at all then they hid it well!

I have flown long haul with a car seat. It was actually quite difficult to find one that met the requirements for air travel. On each leg of the journey I was told that we couldn't use the car seat. I had to fight my corner by producing documentation that I had printed from the airlines website and from the car seat manufacturers website. They don't make it easy.

On the way back from Turkey I sat next to a woman with a baby in her arms with the 'restraint'. She was in the aisle seat.

She fell asleep and the baby ended up falling into the aisle.

So no I don't think these belts are safe enough. If you are looking to travel with a baby, it makes sense to get a car seat that is airline approved so it's safest for all. And those saying babies shouldn't be in a car seat for that lone, yes. True. But it's only for landing and take off they must be strapped in.

Why should the cost be reduced?

Don't they usually provide a bassinet for babes in arms? I think you need to book certain seats that will fit them, so you may have to pay a bit more, but it seems a reasonable solution. Sometimes babies have to fly; if a holiday isn't an acceptable reason, what if people are emigrating or have an emergency?

As PPs have said, it sounds like the baby wasn't the problem, the woman trying to get your seat was.

They’re strapped in with the parent for take off/land/turbulance. Everyone is free to remove seatbelts at other times including adults so flying is just as dangerous for adults?

I agree. Parents arms are not strong enough to hold a baby in severe turbulence and they risk the baby becoming a projectile. They should be in a travel seat, securely strapped in.

flew up to Canada a few months ago (4.5 hour flight) had a mum and baby beside me. I was the aisle seat that I always book because (TMI) a bowel resection has made it in recent years of travel, that I bloat and get gassy. I like the aisle and I book very close to the back of plane , so I can access bathroom quickly , never passed gas in front of anyone in my life...(except husband says i do fart in my sleep sometimes...asshole for telling me that lol) She politely asked if i would like to change seats with her as she may need a diaper change. I told her sorry no.. I book the aisle seat as that is what I need. She was lovely.. so was the little one. I held the little one while she had cup of coffee.. I held the little one while she used the toilet.. I only moved for her baby once...when we both looked at each other ...started laughing and I got up..she got out and went and changed the stink bomb. MUCH MUCH better than a few men I have been sat beside over the last few years...that manspread...fart .. and snore really loud lol. Yup I will take a baby anyday. And yes on the airline I travel often... there is a restraint that they give to parents with baby on lap to attach to the parents seatbelt.

I think it would be much more unpleasant for everyone actually. My baby, and I think a lot of babies, would scream for the whole take off and landing.

I always breastfeed them to stop their ears popping and hurting.

What safer restraint is there for a baby on a plane than being on a parents lap with a seat belt around them and the embrace of a parent to cushion them?

A car seat would not be safe as it doesn’t have attachments to the plane and could be thrown around the cabin in the event of turbulence or a crash. Car seats ate designed for cars, planes are totally different in terms of the physics involved.

They are required to be restrained (meaning wearing a seat belt attached to the parent’s seat belt while seated on their lap) during take-off and landing, as well as during turbulence, just like all other passengers.
Babies and toddlers are treated like any other passenger, not differently. You were not required to change your seat; if an aisle seat was preferred, the parent should have been selected in advance. Other than that, it is unclear what your issue is with a baby sitting on their parent’s lap.
A baby not wearing a seat belt during the flight poses no greater risk than any other passenger not wearing a seat belt at that time. In any case, the baby would have been wearing a seat belt during take-off and landing, you may simply not have noticed.

If it was important that mum and dad sat together on a 90 minute flight, then they would have paid for a seat reservation like OP did. They didn't pay, so clearly it wasn't a priority for them.

I actually agree with OP that unrestrained babies on laps aren't safe, or considerate to neighbouring passengers. I'd like mandatory seats for babies, with an extra, mandatory charge made, that covers a safe baby seat supplied by the airline and seat reservations for the neighbouring seat(s) for the accompanying adults. Would be a much more pleasant, and safer, flight for everyone.