Dodgy Church Pastor

@observant79

The trustees in their annual report are different from the ones listed on the charity commission main page.

My mother attended a church while I was young and the pastor had 6 kids all in private school. Very nice new build in a very nice area. Very nice car. The family all wore designer clothes. No side job other than being the pastor of the church. His wife was a stay at home mother. Now I’m older I do wonder. The constant pressure she was put under and other people in the church to donate was a lot. She gave 10% of her income to the church for a long time while struggling to pay basic bills. Eventually the went bankrupt and lost the house…..while the pastor lived a very comfortable life.

The words scamming and bastard spring to mind.

A charity is not allowed to raise funds through coercion.

This includes knowingly taking money from people whom you know can't afford it. I have given back money before in such circumstances.

Those are your words and your DIY badge. Lack of boundaries and difficult personalities with a superiority / victim /saviour complex are all too common. It's not so much about belief but behaviour. There must be some anthropological studies exploring this phenomenon. Sadly it's not a healthy dynamic all too often. Shame OP got caught out.

So the reporting is sloppy or worse and some aspects of the reported spending, such as the cars and travel, seem out of line.

Others, while lesser amounts, may be questionable.

The spending on TV may be an end in itself, a way to save souls - is that right? I cannot find evidence of the IBM TV shows online, FWIW.

@CraftyGin has raised some excellent points. I would add that Pastor Melusi has his own website describing the ministry. It is all extremely vague, to say the least.

OP, this is all repulsive but it isn’t clear to me whether the law is being broken. I think your best bet is to summarise what you know, from your own experience and this thread, and take it to Citizens’ Advice for help with next steps, if any.

If no law is being broken, all you can do is get out. If anyone threatens you, of course they are breaking the law and you need to go to the police.

Perhaps someone else will have a better idea for you

OP, I think you should raise your concerns with the charity commission. I would not mention the council house or caravan. Focus on the lack of governance, and the fact that it potentially appears as though funds could be used as a personal piggy bank.

Fascinating as this thread is you should probably get it taken down. It’s very identifying.

Yeah, we are all fools - Fools for Christ. Happy to wear that badge.

I don't think the TV work is necessarily a profit making enterprise.

The objectives of this charity are to spread the Christian faith (basically, the same as any church). One of the way it does this is through TV work - it says it airs a weekly TV programme on the Faith Network (?).

Yes, the report is just a couple of paragraphs, with each thing in a single unenhanced sentence. This is so different from the CofE where a trustees report is presented at APCM. Our trustees report runs to over 70 pages.

You are right to be cynical, or skeptical.

I said the lack of registration to Gift Aid is a huge red flag. While there may be legitimate reasons for this, I don't think they fit in this circumstance. A charity is duty bound to follow the Fundraising Regulations, and this means raising as much money for the charity as possible - so they should be claiming gift aid, which is worth up to an extra 25% to them. They could do a lot of outreach work with an extra £40000 to play with.

One of the reasons for not claiming Gift Aid is to be clandestine about their finances and reporting. This links with what the OP said in her OP.

Churches attract people who are a bit strange. When they’re given any kind of official role, their power / victim / saviour complex emerges.

Poor boundaries basically.

OP, in your case, that oddness goes further still and your set up sounds like a scam.

How does it sound now? Not sure I understand this post.

Do all the pastors say you must give to ME in order to me saved? That isn’t my impression of how it works in America (though as PP say the dodgy ones do this).

I think possibly OP indicated the Trustee she spoke with was female. The Trustees on the report unearthed by @CraftyGin are all male, and two have the same surname, appointed or reappointed recently.

Your observations are interesting. I suppose the TV work could feed into the income stream implicitly?

Accounts are far from my area of expertise but this report seems rather, ah, casual to me. Is that too cynical?

Pentecostal churches are huge in Africa - the lifestyle attached to the majority of these pastors shouldn't be a shock as it's pretty normal, whether the church is here or there. Not excusing, but different cultures, norms etc.

Why are you still going? Clearly this is not an above board operation. If there is a wider organisation you can complain to, I suggest you do but I suspect it is an independent outfit.

The Pastor's allowance of just under £30k doesn't strike me as huge if being the Pastor is his only job.

Things that do stand out to me:

Vehicle costs- this suggests the trustees have purchased a vehicle for the Pastor. Is a Range Rover an appropriate vehicle? Has his wife's car also been purchased by the Church? Did he take part in the vote to buy himself a Range Rover?

Insurance costs- these are very high considering the Church rents the building it's in and it's described as a Church Hall as opposed to 'Medieval Church'. What insurance is being paid for? I wouldn't be surprised if it includes vehicle insurance (although that would be reasonable if the Church owns the vehicles, the question is still why it owns something as expensive as a Range Rover).

The television costs- Does the Pastor produce TV and radio broadcasts for Christian networks?No income seems to be derived from this, which from a trustee point of view I would question- where is the income going if not back into church funds? If there is no income, is it a good use of funds?

Travel Expenses- £17.5k. Where are the Pastor or other Church members going that means they run up such significant travel expenses? Are those trips legitimately linked to the work of the Church?

Overall I'd say governance appears quite weak. The trustee who told you they haven't got a clue what's going on should probably stand down- ignorance won't be a defence in law.

Living in a council house and having a caravan in Skegness are immaterial.

Well just the charity number identified the name of the Church. Their accounts look as dodgy as feeding 5000 people on a fish and a few loaves & still having dozens of baskets left over afterwards.

Not registered for Gift Aid is a huge red flag for me.

In the CoE, the Vicar's stipend and housing is funded by 'parish share'. This is money paid by the parish to the diocese. This goes on to fund all the ministry costs and pensions, staff in the diocese, parish support etc.Our church has a parish share of about £130k. DH and I give the full tithe, as well as lots of unclaimed expenses, time and talent.

The compelling part of tithing, is what it enables the church to do with the money, eg fund children's work, do work in the community, basically spreading the word. It is hard to commit to a tithe when you are just paying for basic running costs.

30k to the pastor on this thread is not a lot of money to live on, pay for housing and a pension - but there are other things there, such as a car allowance.

OP just move church - there's bound to be other non CoE churches in your area if you don't like that one. Just stop going, if anyone gets in touch just say you don't want to go any more. The more you engage with it all the more headspace it will take up.

I have South African family members and find their attitude to religion more overt, more about objects, more demonstrative, more about God intervening directly. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the trips are being justified to reinforce a different cultural norm.

Thanks, @LaurieFairyCake

So it looks like the travel, cars and potentially television are way out of line. Several of other items aren’t exactly economical but they aren’t outrageous.

The stipend to ministers in the Church of England and Methodist Church is about £24,000 per year.

The thing about 'Just join another church' - don't people go to church because they believe in what they're told at it? I thought it wouldn't be as simple as 'Hmmm the subs for the Pentecostals are getting a bit steep, might throw my lot in with the Quakers for a while, but then again the Methodists are just down the road so it would be convenient...decisions decisions'. Obviously I'm being flippant there but it is a genuine query - if you (rightly) don't believe the stuff this transparent con-artist is saying, then why are you going anyway? And how can you just choose to switch to devoutly believing another strand of Christianity instead?

Go to one of the many legitimate churches in Leicester. If they are affiliated to or part of a wider organisation there’s more safeguards. Even within the Church of England there is a wide range of worship styles, you should be able to find one that suits you and you will be reassured that there’s a lot of oversight, far more than in the past I should add.