To go LC with PILs because FIL voted for Trump?

I think the issue is that the word "racist" means something different to whoever hears it, it seems like a very subjective term.

I haven't followed the poster or (her?) Posts so can't speak for her, but as someone who agreed with that particular post I feel like there is no safe route for us to go down, I can't see a future that isn't significantly worse than life as we know it today. Polarisation combined with economic pressure is about as bad as it gets. Reform definitely have no feasible ideas of how to actually govern - but then, they do deserve time. They won't get any cooperation from the existing functionaries so they will not survive as an entity. As a general movement, it is moving ever right wards just as the left are going in the opposite direction. It's not obvious to me that Reform could be much worse than what we've had for the past decade, Labour certainly haven't improved things. The problem is now, in my opinion, clearly twofold - the system is no longer fit for purpose and the UK is currently ungovernable. And I have no idea where to look for solutions.

What does your OH think? They are his parents after all.

You cannot rip the family apart just because your FIL was nuts enough to vote for Trump.

My FIL was a racist and used to write adulatory messages to Thatcher. I just let him wash by me when he was around. My DDs saw through him and were just polite. Just go with the flow, but cut off political debate. Keep the topics as neutral as you can.

My in laws voted for Labour. Despite their obvious shortcomings, I managed to remain civil to them!

BTW I'm not at all opposed to more control of immigration in the UK, if it's done in a genuinely non-racist manner.

But I very much doubt that Reform are a genuinely non-racist party (and Farage is a very unsavoury chap indeed).

It's confusing because she apparently rejects the idea that Reform will enact bigoted policies and pass racist legislation (she says "When everything attracts the 'racist' and 'bigoted' label, those labels become meaningless").

And yet she also seems to think electing Reform into government would be "heading down a dark road".

What's so dark about it, if they're not at all racist or bigoted? Is there something else about them she fears (perhaps just general incompetence)?

I'm not sure what you found confusing, I think it was a great post.

Reform are a temporary phenomenon, they're a personality cult built around Nigel Farage, and inherently unstable. They are enjoying success right now as the only emergency stop button available to voters on migration.

Eta: I'm not sure there is any way to address the migration in line with majority will in this country that you wouldn't fine unacceptable. To be honest, as someone who wants it as close to zero as possible for now, I cant think of any acceptable ways to deal with it either. Many people just don't care though. And are completely deaf to moderate/centrist solutions after being gaslit and lied to by institutions which were supposed to be serving them. This is the dark road. It is going to require very oppressive authoritarian measures to suppress this.

Confusing post. Why do you believe it's a "dark road", since you apparently believe Reform are not going to pursue any genuinely racist or bigoted policies/legislation?

I'm am no fan of reform.

But I think this is the issue. When everything attracts the 'racist' and 'bigoted' label, those labels become meaningless.

They don't carry the power they should do anymore because of overuse, and because some people are using them as shorthand for 'I don't agree with you'.

There needs to be a sensible discussion around immigration in the UK. Even those not particularly politically involved are seeing the effects of bad policies.

But a sensible conversation cannot be had, moderates are drowned out with disdain from both sides. And more and more 'normal' people are pushed in extremist directions as they feel their voices aren't being heard.

That is why Reform are doing so well. The two main parties left a vacuum for someone to ride in and say 'I'm the only one who will listen to you'.

We are headed down a dark road, and I struggle to see a way to stop it. Placards, violence and screaming insults certainly isn't going to cut it.

Why are people on here so obsessed with money?

I can see where you are coming from. Indeed, my response was broadly similar in Trump's first term. I was gobsmacked that anyone might vote for him, amazed that people couldn't see through him, the same as my reaction to BJ in the UK. Having thought about it a lot more and listened to a lot more people who did vote for him, I realise that it's so much more nuanced.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own moral beliefs and your responses as a result. I just think it is really rather foolish to write off half the US population or 27% (is that what Reform is polling at currently?) purely because of their voting preference without even speaking to them first to find out why they made their choice. In terms of tolerance, I think I've become less judgemental and more tolerant of certain things with age and experience. I know that this doesn't apply to everyone else. In the UK, it quite often seems to be the opposite!

I said all of the media tends to present things according to their own narrative, and viewers silo themselves, and this accounts in many cases for differernt views. That's hardly a conspiracy theory. Nor is it a conspiracy to say the mainstream media in the UK, the BBC, has done this, there were high level resignations over it and it was a major political scandal.

You on the other hand seem to think I have some kind of "agenda" which does sound rather like a conspiracy theory.

Will your disgust at your FIL’s political views extend to making sure any inheritance your husband may receive from him in the future does not benefit you at all?

If he still supports Trump, Yanbu.

It's really not "just politics." The man is a fascist. Would you have gone low contact with someone who supported Hitler?

It depends on what you deem to be racist. For example you may consider it racist for a government to try and restrict the number of economic migrants coming to the UK via "small boats", typically young men (rarely women) from countries who have very poor records on treatment of women, and there'll be many (pearl clutchers) who think we should be letting them all in. Equally there'll be others who have compassion for genuine asylum seekers going about it via the correct channels, but are less sympathetic of these young male economic migrants: racist or realist? I'd argue the latter but you and others may believe the former to be true.

So these people helped you buy the house that shelters your children and also help with childcare saving you a small fortune yet you think it’s acceptable to stop contact simply over a voting difference?

I would appreciate if they were violent, abusive, alcoholic etc but you have said yourself they are nice people, you just have different opinions and that’s what you should be teaching your kids.

will you stop contact with your own kids when they grow up and eventually have a difference of opinion to you?

It's none of your business how someone votes.

Some of my very best friends voted for Trump. They are all lovely people with great morals and strong family values. They are all very community minded and volunteer a lot, just as my friends who (like me) are very anti Trump do. Some of them now regret it and some don't but are just as uncomfortable with what's happening in this country right now as the rest of us. I just don't think me ditching them as friends is doing anything to help unite us. In fact, quite the opposite.

Oh get a grip and get over yourself.

Have a lie down dear .

What makes you think they are going to offer you more money.

The money was before she knew what they were like, and were for their son, as well as for their grandchildren. You are being extremely unreasonable expecting her to give that back.

Only if you also return the money they gave you towards your house purchase. I don’t think you can have it both ways. If they’re such undesirable characters that you need to deprive your children of a relationship with their grandparents then you can’t in good conscience benefit financially from them.

I actually think you're the one being patronising. You're making all sorts of assumptions about me living in some sort of imaginary middle class British bubble, when you actually know fuck all about me, my background or my life experience. You're explaining that morals and ethics are bound up in culture without any knowledge at all of what sort of exposure I may or may not have had to different cultures or viewpoints. And you're lecturing me on thinking that my version of morality is superior simply because I am failing to fully comply with your version of what tolerance should look like.

And here's the thing... unless we go down the route of absolute moral relativism in which there is no such thing as right or wrong at all, then we all presumably think that our own version of morality is aligned with what's "right". Even if that particular version of "morality" includes a belief that we shouldn't judge anyone for voting for a fascist because we might not understand the motivations or the unique life experience that may have led them to making that choice.

As you have acknowledged in your post, most people would agree that murder is wrong. However, some people might believe that ICE executing people in the streets can somehow be justified "for the greater good". I guess that some Nazis felt the same way about the Holocaust. Personally, I don't believe that this is a morally defensible point of view, and I don't believe that all views deserve to be equally tolerated. If saying that makes me silly and patronising, then so be it.

Ultimately, I'm entitled to my moral beliefs, and you are entitled to yours. And yes, the Trump supporters are entitled to theirs too. Nobody is arguing otherwise. I'm not seeking to silence anyone or take away their right to vote.

I am merely asserting my right - and by extension, the OP's right - to make independent judgements about what I consider to be morally tolerable, and independent choices about who I may or may not want to associate with, based on my assessment of the extent to which other people's values are compatible with my own. If you choose to make different choices, that's entirely your prerogative.

That post form D of HS is clearly gaslighting BS but it doesn't follow that your FIL (or MIL) agree with it, Trump's policy on immigration, the behaviour of ICE or any of the other policies. Have you actually discussed any of this with him?

And when Reform enact bigoted policies and pass racist legislation, people like you will still deny that there's anything at all bigoted or racist about them.

After WW2, and even after the Nuremberg trials, many right-wing Germans still claimed to be completely puzzled as to why the Nazis were viewed as extreme, immoral or unacceptable.