Dads using female communal changing room

are they helping a girl change or a boy? If a girl, maybe he doesn’t feel comfortable changing his daughter in a room full of men and boys? The same way you feel uncomfortable?

I don't understand how people find it offensive when they are taken seriously and challenged based on what they say? Either one engages in a discussion and accepts disagreement - or one should really stay out of it.

Challenging someone and then feeling upset and offended when they accept the challenge is very poor style.

@Taztoy @RedToothBrush and @oldtiredcyclist decided they have to challenge me - that's fine. But feeling upset when the challenge is accepted is an odd approach (unless of course they just play to a gullible audience).

Please, tell me where I am wrong, and I'm more than happy to concede.

This happened to me many years ago when I used to take my boys swimming. We were in the female changing room (as the boys were well under 8 years which is the limit to be in the opposite sex room). There were also naked women too as the pensioner swim was just ending. A man walked in with his
little girl and a load of women basically screamed at him to get out. I felt a bit sorry for him as I think he genuinely had no idea but he should not have been there. Once my boys turned 8 they went into the male changing rooms and I waited outside.

100% this. Adult women shouldn’t be in the mens changing rooms either. Small boys can go in the women’s changing rooms and boys over 8yo can get themselves dressed if no special needs.

It’s very much about dignity as well. The gym I go to is communal changing rooms and I’m sick of older boys being in there. I don’t want an 12yo staring at my boobs. My friends Dd is 11yo and was stripping off and a boy from her class came in with his mum! Who seemed to think there was nothing wrong with this.

As I’ve already said in earlier posts, I don’t disagree with that statement in itself. But I disagree with how limited it is. Why only children over 8? Why only adults of the opposite sex? I’ve said it all above so won’t repeat it, but the answer is lots more cubicles and an end to this communal open rubbish as children should not be exposed to any unrelated adults when changing (or at least not forced to be by a lack of cubicles).

I would ask any man in a woman’s changing room if they were accidentally in the wrong one. If they said no I’d ask them if they were a pervert and a paedophile as why else would they want to be in a room with naked unrelated girls. They need to take their daughters in the male changing rooms and find a cubicle in there.

so currently they don’t want their young daughter to see an unrelated naked man, but they as adult males are happy to see naked unrelated girls. Can they really not see how fucked up that is?

my dad used to take me in the male changing rooms when I was little. I don’t ever recall seeing a willy as we walked through the communal part on the way to the cubicles.

I agree with that. Rereading the OP's posts, I see they were also talking about girls up to 11. I thought that they were referring to only very young children.

Called it! You were that crass and ignorant. Bingo card filled. So if every human im earth is either make or female what sex are “intersex”people? You’ve basically called them inhuman!! Wow! You do know every DSD affects either make or female people, no DSD affects both sexes? If you don’t know what a VSD is, (Variation of sexual development) , which used to be known as “intersex” before it was realised that that word was offensive and dehumanising, then why the hell are you trying to claim that just because people with a VSD exist, no one knows what a mle or female is you great lumping wazzock?

I see the MRA is still banging on then

some men really don't like ti be told no or that they're wrong do they

@Taztoy claimed that everyone who is not female must be male. And that's just an oversimplification as it completely ignores intersex. Albeit rare, it exists and thus can't really be ignored.

Various posters told me that this is wrong - but no one has so far been able to explain how they would define male. I'm not quite sure what VSD (if you indeed mean ventricular septal defect) has to do with this.

It doesn’t matter! Any child over 8 should not be changing in presence of random adults of opposite sex.

So if sex is so complicated and no one can really really tell who is male or female ,how do trans people know they’re the wrong sex? So if there are other sexes as you appear to be claiming, what are they called, what gametes do they produce and what role do they have in reproduction. I am assuming you’re not going to be so crass and ignorant as to refer to those people with VSD to claim sex is complicated.

I definitely see a problem with that. I'm not sure but the OP might have been referring to very young children(toddler, preschooler age) not older children. If it's only very small children that's one thing.

But it is much better if the father simply takes them into the men's changing room if they're young enough. Then there is no possibility of older girls or women being present.

Wait, what? You have read this thread and you (surely?) agree that the man should not have been in the changing room with OP, and you are literally asking if it’s okay for an adult woman to go in the men’s in the exact reverse scenario?

And this is because you are worried about a little child seeing another little child naked?

Hopefully I’ve misunderstood.

...well that's a completely different scenario to this one, where there aren't many cubicles then, isn't it? 🙄

So pretty much as irrelevant as me saying 'I don't see an issue with this, I live near a nudist beach and everyone just gets naked all the time.'

I don’t want my ten (nearly eleven year old) and the slightly older adolescent girls to have to get changed in front of non-related adult males. Especially as they’re at an age where they may well be without their mum in the changing room and unlikely to be confident enough to voice their concerns. Can you seriously not see a problem with this?

Exactly. In this sort of situation there aren't adults of the opposite sex getting changed in front of each other.

Those who believe that I contradict Lord Winston should really pay a bit more attention to what he says. The full quote is - and it is bit more complicated, but does not provide any clear definition of what is "male" and what is "female".

"I will say this categorically - that you cannot change your sex, your sex actually is there in every single cell in the body you have a chromosomal sex you have genetic sex you have hormonal sex, you have all sorts of psychological brain sex, they're all different. And we are very confused about this, unfortunately."

One could also argue that it is a simplification - the difference between male and female red blood cells (cells of the body after all) is not measurable. It's a bit different for platelets (which also don't have genomic material).

The funny thing is though: it doesn't really answer the question how you define male. Clearly a Y-chromosome is not sufficient, SRY expression is not sufficient - so where draw the line? And does one have to draw the line?

The existence of ICD-10 Q56 makes it very clear that claims that everyone who is not male must be female is a very simplistic approach that might be a work-around for every day life, but is still not correct.

@oldtiredcyclist - please look at ICD-10 Q56 - it will give you plenty of names and explanations.

You should have asked him to leave & use a cubicle. If he doesn't want his Daughter seeing other men in the male changing room explain you don't want your child to see a random male in the female changing rooms. Report it to Reception so they're aware of it & ask them to keep an eye. It's their job to stop these kind of things happening.

Could you please tell us the name of this third sex?

No, I wait for yours thanks

Read it - it's much better - and written clearly by someone you respect.

No, because I need to leave enough time to read the quote from your linked article that states intersex people are neither male nor female

He is. Red blood cells are a very good example.