Dads using female communal changing room

Indeed you did. But it doesn't matter, does it? We're both anonymous - it's impossible to verify.

For what it's worth: I'm truly sorry for your experience and in no way was my intention to dismiss or belittle it.

It might be sensible to end this here. It was not my intention to upset anyone but rather to provide a different perspective.

Where has anyone recommended that? People have just said he should be asked to leave. Not to immediately start brandishing their pitchforks.

I asked you first.

Didn't I just make clear that trauma (I referred to victims of abuse) makes this more complicated. I would tentatively with Taztoy's approach - if it was simply someone being ignorant, a warning will suffice (and if not, it's obviously no longer ignorance).

What I objected to were the - welcomed by many - suggestions to chase him out as "paedo".

And I will happily share my credentials if you share yours.

I too have involuntary trauma responses - things I cannot control. Over the years I've seen many women on this site post similar issuse. The presence of men in single sex changing facilities harms women. No matter how loudly and insistently some women try to tell us it doesn't.

I'm sorry you should feel you have to justify this experience to a thread full of strangers on the www.

It's not okay. Never, ever. 💐

My son is 11. No way is he changing in the male facilities on his own just yet.

However, the workaround is for me to solve, not the rest of the female populace. The cut-off age for boys with their mothers in the female changing is 8. So we either: use an alternative pool with mixed-sex changing; use a dryrobe and shower at home; or his dad takes him.

It's our problem to fix, not everyone else's.

And I told you that the presence of the man would cause me harm.

how dare you dismiss my trauma by calling it discomfort.

suicide attempt. Self harm. Is that enough for you? That’s what it would do to me and has done to me before (and I’ve posted about it before here - what happened and what I did so don’t try to say I’m just making it up for this thread).

how fucking dare you.

It’s a swimming changing where there are girls up to the age of 11 getting changed, who will be changing without adult supervision by a parent.

it’s a single sex changing room which means men are not allowed to be there, nor are women allowed in the men’s.

can you please answer my other questions that I already asked you. Thanks so much.

This thread is fascinating - because most posters don't really seem to care about arguments as long as they express their obviously deep seated hatred and suspicion of men. Let's unpack a bit:

• I appreciate that the behaviour of the father was not ideal - he shouldn't have done this without making clear that others are fine with it (one can simply ask). Whether this was ignorance, a genuine mistake or something more sinister, we simply don't know. Statistically, it's most likely that there is no ulterior motive - and it is sometimes really difficult for fathers to do what the daughter wants and what is acceptable otherwise.
• Following on from that: telling the father (or someone else) that this is unacceptable seem to be a sensible approach - haunting the person out with screams of "paedo" definitely not. It is quite shocking to read how many posters don't seem to care about the wellbeing of the daughter - which shows that wellbeing of anyone is not really on their mind. They should perhaps consider how their child would react if their father would by called "paedo" in public - and the impact it will have on their wider life.
• The idea of the equality act and supreme court ruling is interesting, but it's more complicated. If this is a children's event - there is also a requirement that parents supervise children. As far as I understood, this was not a man in a changing room with adult women - but with children who required supervision.

FWIW - I do have some safeguarding experience, so I do appreciate the difficulties, and I do appreciate that there is a lot of discomfort (which will be worse if there are victims of abuse). But there is a different threshold for "harm", and trivialising harm in the way some posters do here is not helpful to anyone. From what I understand, this wasn't a man ogling other children - it was a father helping their daughter to change.

A quiet word to him (or people working there) would solve the problem, wouldn't it? A caring mother could even offer to look after the child if she's old enough.

There are many solutions that would defuse the situation without escalating it.

(And perhaps this offers some explanation for my POV: I grew up at a time and in a culture where communal changing rooms were very common and no-one thought anything of it.)

Ok we’ve had swimming lessons this morning. The men are indeed changing their girls in the women’s just as the women like me are changing their boys in the men’s. In the scenario of a private pool where only very young children (max age 7) are changing, no risk of others changing etc, everyone is agreeing that this is the best approach. I agree that this would not be appropriate if there was any chance of adults/ older children changing, but that isn’t the situation for us so I think it therefore is context specific (rather than blatantly obvious that is should be segregated by adult sex only regardless of the context as some have suggested).

I’ve gleaned from this thread that the consensus is there are two issues with changing rooms - safety and dignity. Girls are changing in front of men in either scenario (either with their dads in the men’s or in front of other dads in the women’s), so it doesn’t make sense to me that girls shouldn’t change in the same room as men in the women’s, because the same people arguing this are saying it’s fine for them to do so if their dads take them swimming.

Some say their sons would feel uncomfortable changing in the same room as me, but this would also be the scenario if they were changing with their mums as also seems to be suggested is the best approach for young children so that also doesn’t make sense to me.

The only naked bodies are those of children, and when I used to change my son in the women’s, girls commented about there being a boy in their changing room, if they are expressing they are uncomfortable with a naked boy, why is that not valid?

In our specific context I am very happy that changing my son in the men’s is the best option.

It's hardly hysteria.

@Alex122022 what about the ruling and the law isn’t clear cut?

can you please explain it to me?

can you also, while you’re at it, explain the prevention of harassment legislation to me? Because 1st instance id warn him and tell the pool and keep a record, 2nd instance id go to the police.

thanks so much.

if you could also let me know where you got your law degree or other expertise from that would be great.

thanks again.

That is a mistake or a lie. A man in a large group of women is still much more likely to be the one with paedophilia tendencies as 98% of sex offenders are men. Some women do offend. But they are vanishingly few and far between compared to the massively overwhelming majority of male sex offenders.

You are either innocently mistaken or deliberately lying.

This is why Dry Robes are brilliant. Straight on over the swimming gear for the journey home and into your own clean shower or bath that has not been urinated in by other people’s children and/or their parents.

A completely understandable fear, I suggest if he's worried about being murdered by a female serial killer he's best off in the men's 🤣😆

That was not important enough to post twice

Might depend on how old your son is. The cut-off is either 8 or 10. After that age, your son should change alone in the men's changing room. If he is disabled, there should be facilities available.

but from experience, I know how one can get into a situation like this without much thinking

yes, he may well not have thought it though (cos he is an idiot) but that means he should be told he is in the wrong by the swimming pool people so he doesn't do it again

but from experience, I know how one can get into a situation like this without much thinking

yes, he may well not have thought it though (cos he is an idiot) but that means he should be told he is in the wrong by the swimming pool people so he doesn't do it again

Thanks, unfortunately I can't edit the post, but I won't express doubt again.

As part of swimming safeguarding in primary school, when I supervised children changing, it was strictly sex-segregated. Only women were allowed to supervise the girls changing room although women could supervise boys. Two men could not be rostered on together. If a man needed something from the girl's changing room, he had to knock and wait in the corridor for a supervisor to come out to him. He was not allowed to just walk in or 'pop his head round the door'.

op, please report. Not only is this totally inappropriate and disrespectful, it's also now illegal sex discrimination against the other girls to deprive them of a single-sex space.

it’s obviously the clubs responsibility to create and stick up signage not mine.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

Just fyi. Troll hunting is against the rules here.

It’s tricky because no one would bare an eyelid if only 3/4/5/6 year olds were changing, but once girls get to around 9/10/11 they understandably start to not want to get changed around random men. That shouldn’t overridden for obvious safeguarding reasons. I’d speak to the club.