Dads using female communal changing room

I'm not sure how to react here. So it's a communal changing room. Presumably there are a lot of women changing their children. So it's possible the women could see another child changing. Are they paedophiles because they could see other children changing? Presumably not, because they are there with their own child. And they're parents. So you have to assume they are decent people.

OK so if you've lend them some credibility because they're parents, what about the dad now. He's a paedophile? How come? Because he's a guy. Isn't he also a parent changing his child? It seems clear there are no women changing in this scenario.

Is it the convention that all the boy children are changing in the male communal changing room, and presumably this dad has a son, and he's in the female changing room? That would be suspicious because it goes clealry against the convention. But what if the dad has a daughter. The daughter should change amongst her male peers just because she's with her dad? I think it would be better for a daughter to be able to change around other girl children.

I don't think it's as simple as labelling every guy in the world as being a paedophile on the basis of them being male.

It’s definitely inappropriate for a man to come into the women’s changing rooms for any reason and I would definitely consider him likely to be a creep, who isn’t bothered about making young girls feel uncomfortable about getting changed. (I’m an abuse survivor myself.) And yes, it’s illegal for men to be in female only spaces, though I’m not convinced the police would do anything if you reported it as a crime.

Obviously, it should be reported to the swimming pool’s reception, as it is against their own policy.

As an aside, what does MRA stand for? I’ve seen it repeated on here, but I’ve never known what it actually refers to?

It is actually illegal to be in women’s only spaces if you’re not a biological female.

This is about a very specific claim by @Taztoy - that it was illegal for the men to be present at all, before being asked to leave.

It's actually quite difficult to find a reason why it should be illegal - voyeurism would be one, but there is no indication by OP that this took place.

That doesn't change the fact that it was inappropriate - but not everything that is inappropriate is illegal.

I’ve never read a suggestion that adult women should be going into male changing rooms. Also why would you need to ask on here? Surely you can work out for yourself the correct changing room to use?

Tell him to piss off or you’ll be phoning the police and report him for voyeruism. The fact he has a female child is no excuse. I have 2 boys and managed not to violate the privacy of changing room users when I took them swimming.

Taztoy. I have seen you post before and know your story. Time to step away and let the MRA have his playtime - its pointless asking him these questions and the only result will be to upset you. Don't let him. x

My dad always brought me and my sister swimming when we were kids . We always went into the men’s changing rooms with him until we were old enough to go into the women’s by ourselves . He was there to supervise us and I don’t see anything wrong with it. There is absolutely no excuse for a man in the women’s changing rooms .

Shouldn’t have to ask a man not to watch women and children getting changed.

Clearly bored tonight, @Alex122022.

No - you have not asked him. He was just present. Please do read the original post.

I’d rather die than have a male partner who spent all weekend arguing on mumsnet 🤮

You need to report the dad and the woman who brings her son in.

im so sorry you had that experience.

your experience shows why those who say “but my husband would ask first” doesn’t work. Women are conditioned not to speak up. And a woman who doesn’t want the man there might enter at any point.

You tell your four year old to do as they are told

Or you go swimming somewhere else where there is a different changing set up.

So the bloke is standing there watching me get changed after I’ve asked him to leave and he’s still there after being asked to leave.

And you don’t think he’s getting a sexual kick out of it? Really?

It isn’t clear the age of all the children getting changed - you mentioned primary school children OP?

It is worth bearing in mind, those saying it’s just kids getting changed, that in primary schools it is generally from year 5 upwards that boys and girls change separately for PE. That’s age 9. So from that age, even the kids wouldn’t want to change among children of the the opposite sex, let alone an adult being in there of the opposite sex.

"It’s never okay for a man to be in the women’s changing, no matter how many scenarios you come up with. "

So you rather die than have a male paramedic?

Now I think about it, there is a mum who brings her son in (definitely over 8) while her little girl gets changed. I find that weird too - why can’t he sit outside at the comfortable tables like my son does?

I’d report her too.

This same scenario happened to me recently. The dad in question shouted out to announce himself and asked if anyone minded. No one responded as we were so taken aback. I minded a lot but was too worried to be the first to say anything. So anyway he took the stunned silence as permission to come into the changing room.
I wish I’d reported it now.
The pool makes it clear that changing rooms are segregated by sex for ages 8 plus.
Now I think about it, there is a mum who brings her son in (definitely over 8) while her little girl gets changed. I find that weird too - why can’t he sit outside at the comfortable tables like my son does?

What the 4yo ‘decides’ is irrelevant.

If your 4yo daughter decides she won’t go in the men’s with you, and there’s no unisex cubicles, then she doesn’t go. You don’t go in the women’s because your 4yo daughter has decided.

It’s never okay for a man to be in the women’s changing, no matter how many scenarios you come up with. And no one makes a mistake of going in. Men know from a young age they are not to be in there. The ones who go in, just don’t care.

Wait until your 4-year old decided he no longer wants to go to the women's changing room - because they are women. Do you want to force him to see naked women?

In what way are those two criteria met?

• for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification, he observes another person doing a private act, and
• he knows that person does not consent to being observed for his sexual gratification.

Surely dad's take there daughters into the men's changing room to change just like mums take sons in to the women's changing rooms until they are old enough to go in themselves. I don't take my 4 year old son into the men's changing rooms he comes in the women's with me same with toilets. He needs reporting hes either a perv or a bit thick and needs telling

Do explain to me why it wouldn’t be voyeurism in the circumstances I described. Thank you.

I never said anyone should force their way nor that I think it was appropriate - all I said was that there are genuinely innocent explanations and that attacking with a mob-mentality might not be the best approach.

"why can you have to argue back and tell me I don’t know enough about the law to state the a position? Why would you do that?"

Don't I have the right to defend myself against accusations - especially accusations that keep changing goalposts. You claimed it was illegal for the man to be there in the first place, due to the 2010 Equalities Act. This is clearly and evidently not true because the Act does not apply to the individual.

You then claimed it would be harassment if he did not leave when asked to do so - and I agree.

But before? Why would it be illegal? Presumably it's not voyeurism, would it be a Public Order offence?

And for the avoidance of doubt: I do not think the behaviour is appropriate and I don't think he should have done it.

So wtf was all the “what would the police do” about?

Men are not allowed in women’s spaces. Nor are women allowed in men’s.

why have you made such a song and dance about expecting people of whatever sex to simply obey the law? And stay out of spaces where they are not permitted?

These girls are up to the age of 11. Many of those 11 year old girls will already be dealing with periods.

the changing may be open to other women who are lawfully entitled to a single sex space.

why on earth do men think it’s ok to force their way in where they are not allowed.

women say no. Trauma or no trauma I say no.

why can you have to argue back and tell me I don’t know enough about the law to state the a position? Why would you do that?