to think expectations of grandfathers vs grandmothers are wildly uneven even among women?

Men are to blame for their own behaviour women are to blame for not opening their eyes and keep on breeding with them then complaining about it afterwards

A man is a useless father from the first why go on and have more

It’s a practical approach from mums who care about their children. My mil cancelled babysitting my 2mo when I had an appt to go do something trivial for her favorite child and tried to make it all even by suggesting my fil come. The man has 5 children and never changed a nappy like fuck is he practicing on my 2mo baby for his first time now he’s over 70 is what I said to my dh who was stupid enough to pass on the suggestion to me, since he doesn’t like to focus on the fact his mum favours her daughter.

my fil is a really lovely man and plays and cares for the gc all the time, came along to my sons basketball yesterday with me, takes one to training, doesn’t heavily favour one child’s grandchildren like his wife, and I love him. But I won’t leave a baby with him. Dh had to stay home and look after our baby. Our kids won’t hesitate to have him look after their babies, they know he’s done it all.

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Interesting topic. Dhs mum died long before we even met so the kids only have grandpa on that side, he was great when our two oldest were wee, then just completely disappeared. I think I only ever asked him to babysit twice whilst I attended appointments but he would turn up at ours almost weekly and stay for days taking the girls out here there and everywhere.

I wouldn't ask my dad to watch the kids actually, maybe the older two but not the younger two. He gets annoyed about the noise etc. My mums coming to stay for a week later on in the year when we're away for my 40th, I presume my dad will also come for a bit but I imagine his tolerance will be low. He's now semi retired and I know in an emergency, he absolutely would, but I'd always phone my mum first.
He was absolutely brilliant when I had my eldest and had awful pnd, it was him that got all the babysitters together and sorted it all out for me, driving three hours each way to get dd, even for less than 24hrs.

I’m not saying he wasn’t capable, more that he didn’t have the time (and/or wasn’t around when we were awake) and so doesn’t really have any experience of looking after young children.

I am not expecting either grandparent to look after my children, an I do not judge them in how they do so, when they do so. I am just grateful for the help. Certainly my mother will plan more ‘wholesome’ activities (and food), but she loves it and has confidence in it. My dad is slightly terrified by the responsibility and picks ‘safer’ options. Both are operating within their comfort zones and I’d say that both are stepping up comparably. They just have different starting points based on previous experience.

Lol - no one has ever done 12 hours of child minding for me 😂. In fact my DM has never childminded at all, literally ever now that I think about it. I’ve never needed her to, I’m quite capable of sorting this out for myself. She’s done her bit and deserves to sit back now. She’s always been available for queries like what to do with a toddler with a raised temp in the middle of the night, is this chicken pox, how to get picky eaters to eat, is it normal to still be brushing your son’s teeth at 8yo etc. In fact, my DF has probably “spent” more time on me since I became a mother than my DM.

Never ceases to amaze me how small some MNers’ worlds are. People are different and do things differently but so many posters write as though their life experiences are the correct and only ones. I find this whole thread weird, it’s such a huge generalization, so vague in terms of narratives and expectations and so forth.

Theirs is even the disdain with which people talk about GMs social life or hobbies. Oh she’s going on holiday or she won’t even cancel her regular lunch with friends for a non emergency.

anything outside of illness or being a packhorse for life isn’t of any value or considered worthwhile. It’s quite sad

Incoherent because I don't understand how your post about women having babies with crap fathers is relevant to unhelpful grandfathers. Unless you're now blaming the grandmothers too.

g and home keeping, DF with car stuff, financial matters, investment ideas, DIY, legal questions

car stuff and legal questions hardly compares to 12 hours a day childminding and all that that entails. Unless you are trouble with the law and bankrupt??

I don’t expect any help from either of my parents, but both have offered in their realms
of capability: DM with pregnancy and menopause and child raising and school standards and cooking and home keeping, DF with car stuff, financial matters, investment ideas, DIY, legal questions.

Why would I ask my DF to help with childcare when he already does so much? Why would k ask my mum for her opinions on which garage to take my car to when she already does so much? And why should I criticize my parents for dividing up labour and interests the way they have?

I don’t understand what point you’re labouring.

Then you wouldn’t be able to any way. If you have the time and choose not to because they won’t give more childcare after loving and raising you and giving you a good quality of life, as if that isn’t enough.

Your generalisation is generally true! But my brother is hugely involved with his grandson and leads on ad hoc and regular activities, so there are exceptions. I guess my bro is a relatively young grandad, if that makes any difference. He works full time and is completely committed to his grandson’s day to day welfare and development.

It's true I've never seen a "I'm hurt my DF/DFIL won't help with the kids" post. Sometimes they are lumped in as a parental unit but the emphasis is nearly always on the grandma.

And to be honest I caught myself annoyed with my mother the other day as she doesn't help whens she comes to see her DGC, and it occurred to me for the first time that I would never expect my dad to help, and the unfairness of that.

That said, my mum always suggests that her visit is to help, and ends up not being the case, while my dad would be transparent that he's coming for a visit, so there's no disappointment. But it would be naive and disingenuous of me to say that's the only reason I expect it of her and not him.

So are you now blaming the grandmother for having (now adult) children with the grandfather, 30+ years ago? Or are we now talking about fathers of young children rather than grandfathers?

Your arguments are incoherent. It seems like you are seeing an imbalance between what grandfathers do and what grandmothers do and are grasping around to blame a woman, any woman or all women, for it.

Who are you in this story, are you the put-upon grandmother or the mother with an unhelpful FIL, or what?

Agree with this. I'm not blaming women for mens behaviour but I'm blaming these women who only ever moan about their mum's or MILs not giving free help and no mention of the grandfathers.

Completely agree.
But it is often mothers that will offer care.
My own father did nothing for us, and certainly never did anything for his grandchildren.

I have several friends that when their mothers died they completely dropped the rope with their fathers who did expect them to take over from their mother in running around after them.
They got a really rude awakening when that didn't happen.
They were told to crack on and get on with it.
Their daughters were too busy with work snd their children, and privately they told me they were largely ambivalent about their fathers.
They had deeply loved their mothers.

Another friends MIL died suddenly and her FIL whom she didn't particularly like, assumed his two DIL would now be running around after him.
Again this friend made it very clear to her husband that his father was nothing to do with her whatsoever, and not to involve her in any way.
5 years on she has not moved an inch on this.