To think that gentle parenting only works with kids that were easygoing anyway

No. What I mean is that I do not necessarily engage in discussions with him. I do when the time is right, but often if he's behaving in a way that isn't right, I'll be straight and firm with him and I will not be engaging in explanations, choices, options or discussions. I don't consider his age or personality to always lend itself to this approach. I also fundamentally believe that as parents we don't always need to explain ourselves. We are here to set safe boundaries for them and sometimes that's all they need, there is no need to constantly engage and elaborate.

Do I raise my voice? Sometimes I do. I avoid it, but it happens sometimes. I also disengage at times. I don't sit with him in the room if he tantrums for comfort (fortunately that's very, very rare now). I don't debate with him if he's moody and stubborn for the sake of it. He knows when he's pushed too far. I don't suffocate him with my constant presence and never have, we never co-slept, never spent hours in the night getting up to attend to him or sleep on the floor. Never bent over backwards to please him even when he was going through tantrums when he was younger. I rarely negotiate. I value my time and his time, we do things together but also separately.

I just fundamentally do not believe we are there to explain everything to the point of life being sucked out of us to appease our children. Gentle parenting involves too much engagement in my view, it's unnecessary. Children learn through exposure to society and boundaries, as they mature, not through endless discussions that are frequently not developmentally appropriate and unsettling, and they create unhealthy focus on individual needs at the expense of others.

I thought it's been scientifically proven that gentle parenting means poor future outcomes?

Or maybe they’re human. I think it’s asking a huge amount from parents to expect them to manage competing demands at the same time as ensuring every is safe, where they need to be one time and in order with endless patience.

I also think parenting means responding to new, unexpected and challenging situations constantly, and while I’d love to think I can remain calm and engaged in every circumstance the reality is I don’t always manage it. I’ve snapped at my kids, raised my voice, set boundaries and yes, imposed punishment at times.

They aren’t harmed or damaged because the relationships are solid, we fix things, apologise where we need to. Parenting is primarily relationship based and relationships can be tricky.

I gentle parent my 4 year old (although I’m confused by your addendum about not saying no - I’ve never heard of that before and I certainly say no). She was a very difficult baby and young toddler. Very spirited, lots of screeching, very defiant, emotionally dysregulated etc. I just plugged on staying calm, modelling emotional regulation and gently holding boundaries without ever yelling or punishing. She gradually started to mirror me and now at 4 never has full blown tantrums (still gets upset when things don’t go her way of course, but seeks comfort and coregulation rather than kicking off), is gentle and empathetic and has turned into a lovely, affectionate wee girl. Still strong minded and pretty stubborn, but treats others well and expects the same in return. I’ve no regrets.

seeing at how many of the ones who insist on using the label "gentle parent"
are showing the complete opposite of "empathy, respect" for anyone who doesn't use the same label

I am not sure you are making the point you think you are making

Reading through the replies, maybe I wasn’t gentle parenting!
I absolutely would not have allowed him to bite or kick people. I’d have physically removed him. I wouldn’t have shouted at him after though, it wouldn’t work to stop him doing same again.

Because a lot of punishment comes from emotional dystegulation in adults (I say adults rather than parents because I've seen it in school too - where the 'consequence is disproportionate to the misdemeanour).

Punishment is often about making a child feel bad or retaliation.

The language evolved to consequence to try and move away from that.

My parenting probably fell into the (proper definition) of gentle parenting. It wasn’t permissive and it wasn’t wet lettuce. I treated my kids with respect and had attainable standards. I was fortunate that they were pretty easy going generally, even my eldest, who was harder work than my youngest. But I’m not sure what came first.

Whenever I see criticism of gentle parenting, it's people who don't know what it entails. Most often, people are complaining about permissive parenting because they cling to the control/punishment and reward model they were raised with and prefer to piss on people who try to do better, or mock permissive parents, because it's easier to deflect than sort themselves out. In about 20 years I've never seen a genuine critique of why it's harmful, because people are never talking about gentle parenting when they attempt to bash it. Being respectful, having knowledge of age-appropriate developmental abilities, and working with your child to meet their needs, is never going to end badly or "not work" with any personality type. Some children are more sensitive or have greater needs, but respectful parenting and helping children to develop emotional awareness and the skills they need to manage themselves appropriately is always positive.

A lot of people are a product of controlling parenting themselves, and are still very triggered when they're met with difficult emotions and 'disobedience'. Rather than working on themselves and coregulating, some snap and justify their poor parenting by saying it's the only way. They refuse to believe that modelling empathy and respect leads to empathetic, respectful young people, which is as silly as it is sad.

I think the opposite. I think compliant children will put up with much more…non gentle…parenting. It works short term, although who knows what the long term impact might be. Less compliant kids need more affirmation and acceptance-which feels like a long way round, but isn’t, really.

Gentle parenting is more successful with more affluent, intelligent parents.
It takes more attention to the child's actions. It takes more communication. It takes less digital devices. It takes more outside activities. It takes a child to be higher intelligence (Due to parental intelligence) than others. It even takes a better diet for the child and the family. It takes consistency. It takes rules and time.

I completely disagree

This is PARENTING, it has nothing to do with "gentle parenting"

I don't think the majority of the population can make gentle parenting work.
because gentle parenting is a label that rarely means anything, but those who use it just like to pretend it's their style. It's more likely to be passive and lazy parents who think they are superior because they let their kids go wild.

No one needs a label, you parent as you can and as well as you can and you learn as you go along, because all children are different, circumstances are different. When you start using a label, you are only looking for excuses.

I am going to say this. Its not going to be popular. Gentle parenting is more successful with more affluent, intelligent parents.

It takes more attention to the child's actions. It takes more communication. It takes less digital devices. It takes more outside activities. It takes a child to be higher intelligence (Due to parental intelligence) than others. It even takes a better diet for the child and the family. It takes consistency. It takes rules and time.

Compare that with what most 'gentle parenting' is in this country where its a family rushed off their feet. Stressed. Financially struggling. Children are fed a mix of Ultra Processed Foods and given an ipad for entertainment. Time in the fresh air is the mother opening the back door so they can play in the garden. Dad is at work and gets home tired and grumpy. They are then gentle parented and turn into horrible little bastards to everyone. By the time they get to 13 they have most of their behavioural habits ingrained and starting to become too big to introduce any discipline. That's when the parents come on here and ask where it went wrong.

I don't think the majority of the population can make gentle parenting work. I am not saying it doesnt work but for the majority discipline, rules, actions and consequences will result in a much better outcome. I absolutely think this is one of the reasons for all these SEN/ADHD diagnosis. The percentage increases are getting ridiculous

I see gentle parents online saying they let their kids eat what they want and do what they want

let's be honest, they are not gentle parents, just lazy parents.

As are all the ones saying "pick your battles" because they can't be bothered to address some issue and try to do as little parenting as they can possibly can.

THAT summarises exactly my judgment of "gentle parents" and why most of us believe "gentle parenting" is utter nonsense.

The sword is put away calmly by the parent - not snatched aggressively in anger - and the child isn't also called all sorts of names (naughty, nasty, 'you little shit', etc). And the child doesn't then go without dessert, or be banned from watching TV, or anything else that is just an unrelated punishment.

Why on earth does it have to be one or the other? In some people's head, it is. Either you are a so-called "gentle parents", or you are an abuser. There's no middle ground.

So you think that you are a superior person? Really? It's either "gentle parent" or angry unfair violent unreasonable shaming child abuser? Because in many people's head, it's exactly the set-up.

Why are we so afraid of the word punishment? There are loads of times where no direct/natural/logical consequences would matter a jot to a child who’s being vile.

See most bullying behaviour. If a child is being unkind to another, they aren’t going to care if the “natural “ consequences is that the other child will no longer play with them, and the idea that the rest of the child’s playmates will not play with them because they are being mean to one kid is for the birds. At that point, I would absolutely be engaging in punishment.

I would have been easy to gentle parent as a kid, quiet and extremely compliant. My son however would probably be dead if I gentle parented him, trying to run in roads jump in ponds, I see gentle parents online saying they let their kids eat what they want and do what they want yeah well if I did that all he’d eat would be pizza and he’d never stop watching tv.

Notice these online gentle parent gurus usually only have one or two very young children?

Yup logical consequences is also a good term! They all make sense and I totally agree with them. It’s not the consequences themselves i disagree with. Just when people incorrectly label them in order to make them sound like a better/nicer parent.

No i disagree. I have kids with neurodivergence who really struggle and gentle parenting works for us better than when I am stressed and fall into the auto reactions of parenting examples from the parents who parented my generation

but we are not talking about "labelling" people, but sometimes you just call things for what they are.

If someone is being rude, there's nothing wrong with telling them they are being rude. Or lazy, or whatever.

the child has a start point of having a reason for what they do,and honouring that reason,
in term of being lazy for example, there might be very good reasons, but it doesn't mean they are acceptable!

If your child feels shame when you have a normal conversation, you are failing at parenting and you need to teach them some resilience. HOW will they ever cope with friends - who can be brutal - at school and later in normal life?

When I feel shame I don't learn.
If you feel shame when you have a big fat 0 on an essay, or if a teacher tells you that your work is below acceptable standards, it's on you. You don't expect your teachers to give you pity mark and tiptoe around you to protect your feelings.

If you feel shame because you arrive last in a race (or competition, or test, or exam), it's on you. You don't expect others to wait for you.

It has nothing to do with achieving "obedience", don't be ridiculous, it's about raising well adjusted people who are confident individuals and won't pretend they have been publicly humiliated when a teacher makes a joke that would make everyone else smile.

How about the term 'logical consequences'? When DD was small we needed a lot of those - using the plastic toy sword to hit somebody? Sword gets put away, for everyone's safety. It's not a natural consequence, technically, but it is a logical one. Then it was just a case of waiting out the meltdown, without shaming or punishing.

Gentle parenting, done correctly, avoids illogical consequences that are literally just punishments and avoids shaming. So in the toy sword example, it gets put away because it's not safe for the child to keep it if they're using it to injure others and have not been able to stop at the very first parental intervention. The sword is put away calmly by the parent - not snatched aggressively in anger - and the child isn't also called all sorts of names (naughty, nasty, 'you little shit', etc). And the child doesn't then go without dessert, or be banned from watching TV, or anything else that is just an unrelated punishment.

And the problem doesn't arise again in the short term, because they don't have the sword. And if they ask for it, a conversation can be had about why it was put away. And the parent might allow them to have it again, but of course if it's misused then it immediately goes away again (and the child knows this will happen, because it's happened before, and is hopefully minded to use it in genuine play instead of as a weapon).

Honestly we could probably gentle parent DS as he takes after his dad but DD takes after me and if she was gentle parented she would be a nightmare. They’re like Miss Piggy and Kermit personality wise.

From what I’ve heard real gentle parenting is different from what most people think it is, but I definitely know a few Tick Tok gentle parents who I think are setting themselves and their kids up for failure.

Direct consequences is a far better way of describing them!

Immediate and related to the issue.

I agree that the language is largely where this model fails for all the reasons you gave.

I hear so much wishy washy, "Sweetheart, let's use kind hands... oh no, sweetheart, remember kind hands... show me your kind hands, darling..." all whilst doing absolutely nothing - absolutely no physical intervention. Has anyone even told the child what they mean by 'kind hands'?

I've had parents come to parents evening and had to stop the consultation I'm in the middle of to stop a 'gently parented' child from doing something dangerous (like climbing up bookcases/opening overhead cupboard doors/throwing things). Things they have literally never done in class but as soon as mummy is sitting there looking on and smiling approvingly at their 'adventurous spirit', everything is permitted.

The worst thing is when i tell a child to stop and the parent just smiles back and says, "Oh, it's alright, he's just..." only for them to be sat in front of me 5 mins later for their own consultation asking for support with their child's behaviour at home because he behaves like that at home too and they don't know what to do. Er, parent them..?

But that's not gentle parenting. That's shit 'parenting' (if you can even call it that).

I haven't chosen a parenting 'style' to go with from a book. Just winging it.
I decided a few things I wouldn't do, like cry it out, smacking and things that seem outdated but I find it bemusing to choose a parenting style from a book.
I did buy a book on potty training though.

I’ve never read the book, I don’t think Gentle Parenting was even a topic of discussion.
My kids are now 24 & 20 and highly successful happy young adults.
We practiced respect for all, talk things through, never strike or humiliate anyone, and good behaviour gets rewarded.
There were boundaries, but we discussed why they were necessary (safety usually)
Rewards were usually screen time, friends over to play, trips to the park, cinema visits etc when they were young.
We usually just had to use the mantra ‘Good Behaviour Gets Rewarded’ (we never mentioned what bad behaviour got, just that they wouldn’t be rewarded)
There were challenges during the teenage years, but love was unconditional and we talked things through (negotiated) as much as possible.
We were fortunate that the majority of the time our kids were willing to cooperate and loved getting into discussing nice things we would do together. We were lucky enough to have some fantastic family holidays when they were old enough to appreciate them.
We had decided before we had them that they would never be slapped and we had to be creative in ways to encourage them to want to behave.
Our kids saw other children being hit by their parents and were horrified that someone who loved them would hurt them.
We didn’t do God either!

In my mind it’s just a consequence - you did X and now Y. Whether it’s a consequence I introduced to encourage particular behaviour, or something that happened as a result of X, it’s a consequence. Bearing in mind children don’t make the link between X and Y until they’re old enough to reason, it doesn’t matter what you call it as long as you’re consistent and make the links for them.

Negotiating with a 2 year old is utter nonsense because they can’t reason in their own mind, developmentally they aren’t there yet so it’s just confusing to them. Giving a clear choice where you genuinely don’t mind the outcome is great, pretending there’s an alternative to putting your shoes on so we can go to the shops is an utter waste of time and yet so many parents phrase instructions as questions “would you like to put your shoes on?”.

Too many parents confuse authority with abuse - I am an authority figure in my kids lives, I’m ok with that. It doesn’t make them or their views matter less, or mean I dictate to them but they know I’m ultimately in charge, because that’s my job as their parent.