To think current concerns over screen time is bordering hysteria

Ugh. Generally X should read Generation X.

Yes! I keep reading about these 1950s parents parenting generally X types. As in children should be seen and not heard etc. I was parented by boomers who very definitely didn't want to be that type of parent and I'm not alone. Obviously different people have different experiences, and some norms have changed, but I suspect there's a element of stolen valour. Like flag hanging types being obsessed with winning WW2 when it happened before they were alive.

It’s an interesting debate that’s for sure.

I take your point about not being forced to rub along with different groups of people, and this being reinforced by algorithms, but doesn’t the work place also provide that opportunity?

As for anti-social behaviour and misanthropy; I’m not certain that can all be blamed on screens can it?

Surely improved living standards post-war and politics in the 80s eg Thatcher’s “no such thing as society” have also played their part? The decline of youth clubs, public spaces, organised religion, increased car ownership, extended family members living further away from one another, have all played their part?

And just to be clear, I wasn’t advocating a return to 1950s style gender divisions at all, just pointing out that women have always in the past been at the forefront of holding communities together, and thinking beyond themselves.

Edit: and longer working hours, compared to those in some parts of the EU for example, preventing families enjoying stress free time together, and from volunteering for the guides & scouts or community groups, also have a negative impact.

You’re parenting a a child with additional needs so your experience will be wildly different for those commenting with neurotypical children

I’m not sure that I entirely agree with this.
There have always been extroverts and introverts in society. I was brought up way before the internet and Iphones and locked myself away with books.
Conversely I think that the internet and phones have opened up society a lot to everyone. Accessing information about local clubs, hobby and interest groups, and classes is so much easier now than in the days when you had to schlep down to the local library for information.
Tbh I think women working full time has had as much, or almost more of an affect on the lack of community cohesion, than screens.

I don't think this phenomenon has anything to do with genuine introversion: "introvert" has become a sort of shorthand for antisocial or misanthropic behaviour, which you see all the time in the "I hate people" threads. Genuine introversion is a different ballgame altogether.

In theory you're right that the internet opens things up. I think it's really good for special interest groups or people who feel marginalised by society in various ways; I don't want to minimise this.

But the negative side of that is that if people feel they can find all they need online they no longer see the benefits of having to rub along with people who they haven't chosen. There's a big social benefit in learning the skills to deal with people who are different from you. The internet and social media allows people to sidestep this.

As for women working I completely disagree with this. Women who work are women who have access to money and perspective outside the home. I can't see why having a 1950s style gender division really supports the community. It just means women are trapped in the domestic sphere.

Kids aren't allowed play anymore in a way that best suits their development, that is being out and about with other kids having adventures, solving problems, climbing and jumping, negotiating play and being deeply engaged in something imaginative that goes on for hours. Even those that have a lot of outside play do so under the watchful eye of an adult who intervenes every time an argument develops or when they climb too high, taking away their opportunity to truly thrive socially and to learn how to assess risk. We've really done our kids a disservice by setting up social norms around safety only without balancing this against the benefits of outside play. Can parents now even imagine how easy life would be if we could tell them to go out for an hour while we cook the dinner or do some cleaning. Then we could spend quality time with them at home because all our needs would be met. The screens are filling the gap that we created. I don't know the answer but the excessive screen usage I believe is just a symptom not the cause of the issue.

I’m not sure that I entirely agree with this.

There have always been extroverts and introverts in society. I was brought up way before the internet and iPhones and locked myself away with books.

Conversely I think that the internet and phones have opened up society a lot to everyone. Accessing information about local clubs, hobby and interest groups, and classes is so much easier now than in the days when you had to schlep down to the local library for information. Ditto re-connecting with friends and family.

Tbh I think women working full time, as good a development as that is, has had as much, or almost more of an affect on the lack of community cohesion, than screens.

The teachers on this thread are literally TELLING YOU the impact this is having on your children. They see it, day in day out, and have witnessed the change in your kids over the years! But people are STILL arguing that it’s fine and anyone who disagrees is judgemental? Fucking Christ alive. I honestly despair. Wake up. iPad kids have lazy parents, end of. Deny it all you want. And yes I am judging you!

They turned on the TV.

The TV has been around since the 50s in many homes.

Or...
Both of my grandmothers had home help - one had maids and a governess and one had an older relative living in the home.

Many homes had regular help of one kind or another, whether cleaners or relatives who took the children off the mothers' hands for a little while.

There was also booze and valium.

And the wooden spoon was deployed much more frequently back then than now.

Is the conversation stuff really about screens though? A lot of that comes down to shyness or not wanting to engage with random adults. I’d be more concerned about them not being able to interact normally with peers.

Don’t be ridiculous, screens don’t give you cancer!

I’m not saying stick your baby in a car seat facing the tv for 12 hours a day or give a 5 year old a phone to use at will but those terrified that 20 minutes of iPad games or YouTube Kids or whatever will destroy your kids attention span and give them mental health disorders are being unreasonable!

The proportion of single parent households was exactly the same 25 years ago as it was today (1 in 4). I was a single parent to three, including one with autism. I worked full-time. It was tough, but they didn’t have tablets/phones because they didn’t exist. We managed.

It’s terrifying to see the change in children. Parents of young children probably can’t see it because they’re unfamiliar with development in children pre-screens. In years to come I think giving screens to toddlers and young children will be seen as the modern equivalent of smoking around them. It’s proven to be harmful, but parents will make excuses, just as our grandparents did about the dangers of passive smoking.

I think people forget the importance of play. It is literally what children are wired to do. It's how they learn, learn to negotiate with friends, role play certain roles in society, use their imagination, learn to be funny, create stories, use their physical body, get exercise. With long days at school followed by lots of screens, and sometimes over scheduled hobbies, play, apart from a couple of short play times at school, is often completely eradicated.

It's not that long ago that TV was crap! Parents were hardly relying on TV to parent their kids back in the 50s with just one or 2 channels and mostly adult content and terrible reception.
Kids used to play! They played out on the street, ran around, read, or wrote or drew or played with toys or balls, made up games. Or helped parents with chores.

Too much screen time is often linked with worse symptoms in children with ADHD. Can also lead to poor sleep and makes things harder for the child to focus and can affect behaviour resulting in even more inattention and hyperactivity. https://www.buoyhealth.com/learn/adhd-screen-time-hidden-trap www.buoyhealth.com/learn/adhd-screen-time-hidden-trap]]]]

Some some time in a classroom
and you will see the damage to kids today. Lots of them cannot hold a conversation, cannot concentrate for
more than 5 minutes and struggle
with basic comprehension.

The conversation thing is really scary - they can talk but don't listen, don't allow turn taking and have no clue how to answer. Not all kids but it gets more every year. Would say 60% of my year 7s struggle.

It's unfortunately all too common. Very very sad. No baby in a pram needs an Ipad. Ever.

Online gaming is a far cry from watching endless YouTube videos. Very very different. Unfortunately we are heading towards having an almost illiterate group who are unable to pay attention for anything more than 3 minutes.

I think disproportionate fuss is made over a 3 or 4 year old watching an hour or two of appropriate content on an iPad each day, which let’s face it isn’t all that much worse, with some supervision, than watching crap on TV.

While not enough is made of the 10-18 bracket spending eight hours on often mindless social media content every day.

The biggest danger for me of screen addiction is the zombification which it creates: the dopamine dependency factor of it and the fact that so many people use it as a social and emotional prop. I do think this has very significant harms: it is impacting people's attention spans and concentration and focus. I do think there's a difference from TV in the way that its used. TV can be brain rot as well but it doesn't have the same addictive quality and also TV has a social component to it which phone-based screen time lacks.

The impact its had on people's ability to socialise with other human beings is also a real problem. You see this in spades on here with all the threads praising "introversion" and the constant desire to shut people out. It seems to have impacted people's ability to feel part of a wider community and their ability to cope with any kind of social friction in the real world. It's a truism to attribute this to COVID but I think screen addiction and social media has enabled people to "curate" their social personas in such a way that they don't feel able to manage real interactions.

TV.

If you’re talking 100 years ago, well in those days usually only one parent worked
or if both were working then the child (if over 9 or 10) was probably working too.

I think we all agree cbeebies at home for an appropriate amount of time, can stay. Doesn't mean all the other stuff isn't problematic. It's not hysteria to face up to a real problem for which there is clear evidence, no matter how much the cognitive dissonance doesn't want us to

Sorry! Quoted wrong post - this was meant for the poster you were replying to.

Give over. My son has ADHD. Looking at the rest of rhe family it's almost certainly genetic. But if he's had too much screen time, is over tired and eaten crap he is grumpy, argumentative, rigid and anxious. If he's been out in the fresh air, eaten good food and had a nice time with his family he is a hilarious, good humoured, kind, thoughtful, all round lovely ball of enthusiasm. Environment doesn't change the disability but it makes a massive difference to behaviour. I personally think we have the same levels of nerodivergence now as we always did, but environmental factors mean the way it often presents is vastly different.

Truthfully - this isn't really about the kids but much more about projection from adults in society who are feeling too much pressure to be 'on' all the time via their own screens.

The internet and smart devices for most people, especially those in jobs that use any technology, has meant a creep creep creep of jobs into every minute of your life. Always available, always checking messages and emails even when 'not working'. (Increasingly companies don't give work mobile phones - can't imagine why...)

If you're not working - you're researching - things to buy - holidays, DIY projects, houses, food, etc etc
Doing admin - taxes, bills, school stuff
Medical things, appointments, banking
Keeping in touch - emails, WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook
Hobbies - downloading photographs, listening to books,
News, podcasts, message boards, dating apps

And on top of that you have to exercise (after researching all the best ways), prepare food (after reading about all the latest research), teach your children the million and one things they need to be taught (after reading all the latest research), get them to school, make sure they are clothes, fed and emotionally supported (see above), have sex (after reading all the latest research), maintain romantic relationships (after looking for advice about how best to maintain a relationship online),

I could go on, but you see my point?

Children starting school without the requisite skills is a societal failing - not a parental one - we should have decent safety nets in the form of things like sure start (one of the most successful schemes ever - and the lack of something similar could be seen to be contributing to everything we are seeing happens now) and access to high quality early years health and education for all children.

And the problem we are seeing in education may not be because the children's brains are being rotted by screens and social media but because our education system stinks,they hate it and isn't really fit for the way the world is today - AI is going to kill pretty much all the jobs that most kids are being prepared for - society as we know it is going to change in ways we just cant conceive right now - we owe our children the right to be taught and navigate the online world in the same way we teach them to navigate the real world - and that isn't to ban them from it - but to make sure their access to it is safe and managed and balanced with other things in their lifes.

Agreed. I watched parents put a tablet in the hands of an under 2 the other day and then push a dummy in his mouth to really seal the deal on any interaction. He wasn't fussing and hadn't asked for it. Sad.