The Traitors is both racist & ageist?

Those who are saying "Well we have an Asian person, a mixed race person..." there isn't just one sort of racism.

There is colourism, where darker skinned people are more likely to have bias against them; anti-blackness, which would mean Ross goes while Jade stays - and a load of other things like misogynoir, where black women have to tone down things that make them seem 'black',and intersects with other stereotypes like age, so Roxy stays while her older mum goes.

There are also other cultural things, I was interested to hear Jade's international connections and now in that light can see that the mixture of her forthrightness and holding back a bit is being read in a different cultural context. It's currently doing her some favours but such misreadings often don't, as in the examples given of brown men being seen as sneaky.

Another interesting thing is the intersection of privilege around neurodivergence and disability - It's ok to have adhd if you're a white man and to stutter if you're a young attractive physically slim white woman.(Though the comment that they all performative listened to Jessie then ignored her is SPOT ON).

I'd like to see a really diverse group with people who challenge our norms loads more.

It's a reflection of the negative bias people see in every day life.
Basically - the prejudice seen here will not be a shock to any of the people voted out early in the game for pretty much no reason other than "they don't look like me".

Interesting. Although I don’t disagree with the unconscious bias thing in general and in The Traitors, although I think it works more like trusting people who are ‘like’ you rather than being necessarily against people of colour.

I’m not sure I agree with your assessment of Amanda/ Jade dynamic. After all, posh female educated Chinese people are not overly represented in the criminal justice system, so it’s unlikely that A was using her police experience to profile her. With Jade I think that she holds so much sadness that Amanda picked up something felt ‘off’ and assumed her aloofness meant she was guilty.

Inverted snobbery?

Erm, Jade, Roxy and Faraz are all still in 🤷🏻‍♀️

The main factor in being voted out seems to be about the dynamics of the loudest voice in the room during the round table. In this series the first person out was the person whose head turned when C said 'Traitors'. The second was the person who ran up to and mounted another contestant. The 3rd and 4th were white men and one was indeed a Traitor so their suspicions were correct.

IMHO the faithfuls should work out that it is possibly 'unconscious bias' that gets Traitors picked in the first place and focus on that.

The doctors are always banished early! Any type of doctor. And in the UK especially, doctors are often Asian.

I don't know why the faithful think care workers or shopstaff can't be traitors!

There'll be some degree of that inevitably I guess, as it's true everywhere.

There's also a degree of metagaming. They have shaken it up a bit this season but until now there has always been a minority woman and usually a middle aged one among the original Traitors, so while people can't say that's why they're doing it, they will often gun for such people simply because the producers have previously selected that demographic.

Completely agree. The first few episodes of this series I found quite boring/confusing as there were too many young men who seemed quite interchangeable.

Also agree that there is too much emphasis in the tasks on speed and strength, which is going to disadvantage most older contestants.

Unconscious bias.

Also as I have said on many threads- sorry to repeat myself- the Traitors UK has always picked at least one WoC as a Traitor until this season. This may have unwittingly put a target on every WoC.

I think the title of the thread is more accurately “people* are racist and ageist. It’s the contestants making the decisions.

The fucking worst was S1 when a middke aged woman with a prosthetic hand got banished for not raising her glass! You could see all the prejudice then

Ruth Codd said that when she was on they went to a lot of trouble to check that she could access tasks despite having an amputated leg. So perhaps they would have adjusted last night's task if someone less fit had still been around?

Agree with all of this

I think celeb traitors is a bit different because you have existing relationships. And even when they don’t know each personally, they know of each other. So you’re acting less off unconscious judgements.
Niko went first, and while race could have been a factor, I think that mainly it was because he was a YouTuber that none of the other celebs had heard of, he wasn’t an “insider” to the group iyswim.

Yes, we keep asking ourselves why Jade has been under so much suspicion, especially from ex-Met Police Amanda. Oh yeah, because shes not white.

Surprised no one has mentioned the unconscious sexism bias. The first two out weren't just people of colour, but women of colour. As a pp has said, there's a large group of interchangeable dull 20-30s white blokes and no doubt one of them will win, just like Jake last time.

The only surprise is that this group are brave enough to "kill" the disabled contestant.

Kaz got banished last series v early for no reason

If you watch the shows from other countries, you will notice it's often the young brown men banished first as ' sneaky", " too clever" " untrustworthy' etc.
Doctors, lawyers and scientists often also get banished first amd these are often people of colour.

I agree that any pairing who are found to know each other will be seen as suspicious and voted out (see the white couple in one of the earlier seasons where the boyfriend go so cross with people suspecting his girlfriend, and in one case flirting with her, that he blurted it out).

However, literally everyone has unconscious biases and it’s ridiculous to suggest that they aren’t a factor in the factor (I’m not saying you specifically are suggesting that). Why would the traitors be different to the rest of the world. Everyone stopped to performatively listen to Jessie lest they be accused of not listening to someone with a stutter - and then proceeded to flatly ignore every sensible thing she said. Probably because she was a young woman, with a stutter. If one of the various 30 yr old white men had made the points she made, Stephen would already be out.

I think this is the first time that I’ve watched the show and felt uncomfortable with the unconscious bias on display when it came to the decision to banish/murder contestants. I’m sure none of it is deliberate but I feel it has been a bit more on display than I remember in previous series.

The premise of unconscious bias is that you instinctively want to support/ are more likely to trust those people who you perceive as "like you" so it's not so much about being prejudiced against people who aren't like that as that being the result of you drawing towards people more like you.

There are plenty of shock dance offs with white people too.

And the final groupings in celebrity traitors didn’t reflect racism, if I remember correctly.

I mean, I’m not arguing that there is no unconscious bias… but I’m not convinced about some of the examples given. We do tend to see what we look for, though.

Part of being a human, perhaps?

those stats actually improve my impression of it...

i've only watched seasons 1 and 4 but I think the level of "othering" at the start of each season is through the roof - if you don't fit the groups norms (which in this season is white men in their late 20s to 30s) then you are much more likely to be up for banishment or murder. so whether it's race or age or disability, I think the unconscious bias SCREAMS! it's not just about the end result it's about who is "on the list" at the time.

TBF, I think by the end of week two in both seasons people have got to know each other better and there's less of that kind of behaviour and it's much more based on real detail - which is probably why the stats don't look as bad?